Wooden system vs Zacuto Studio Baseplate for the Scarlet?

[Les C.]

The zacuto gear is heavy. Yes it will last forever but it is not really designed specifically for the epic or scarlet. I do own some zacuto gear dating back to the lexus 35 mm adapter days and do occasionally pull it out to solve a mounting problem but I think that it's overpriced and have to laugh every time that I see a full zacuto rig with dual handles and counterweights on the back. I'll put a battery on the back but no counterweights.
It seems that so many of the accessory manufacturers have never operated a camera for more than 5 minutes. Take a look at their rigs: how do you pull focus? Is the focus wheel jammed into your chin? Can you operate without looking 45 degrees up in the air? Is the lens above your head or is the monitor in your line of sight?
Not to date myself but the Aaton really was the perfect handheld camera, hell even the arri sr2 was a good second and there's a reason that the betacam form factor has persisted for so long. Look at these designs and look at the monstrosities that are being sold to unsuspecting buyers. Handheld work should be fluid and the camera should be a part of the operator, a crazy contraption on you shoulder will not achieve this.
Ok, rant over.
I like what wooden camera and innocinema are doing right now, they are obviously shooters. Look at their solutions.

Shane - thanks for taking the time to give a detailed reply.

Everything you say makes perfect sense about focusing, viewing the scene and balance.

But, due to my lack of experience with using a rig, I'm missing how Wooden can do this better than Zacuto? I hear what you are saying, and I'm looking at pictures of Zacuto rigs and Wooden rigs.

But, I must be mentally-challenged, as I'm having a hard time getting my head around the differences.

They both look similar to me, but the Zacuto seems to have a lower center of balance, at least if the Wooden 15 mm bridgeplate is used below the Easy Riser - as compared to the Zacuto Studio Baseplate.

The FF would seem to be out in front, where you can grab it, for both rigs. And both can use arms to move the LCD or EVF to the desired position.

Maybe it's just the weight? But, I see more pieces of metal going into the Wooden direction.

I know I"m asking a lot, but could you critique this video showing the Zacuto solution?

I'm just having a lot of trouble 'getting it' - but I respect the opinions of all the people who know a lot more than I do, so .... it's very frustrating that I can't see the big picture for some reason???

 

[Shane Kelly]

Shane - thanks for taking the time to give a detailed reply.

Everything you say makes perfect sense about focusing, viewing the scene and balance.

But, due to my lack of experience with using a rig, I'm missing how Wooden can do this better than Zacuto? I hear what you are saying, and I'm looking at pictures of Zacuto rigs and Wooden rigs.

But, I must be mentally-challenged, as I'm having a hard time getting my head around the differences.

They both look similar to me, but the Zacuto seems to have a lower center of balance, at least if the Wooden 15 mm bridgeplate is used below the Easy Riser - as compared to the Zacuto Studio Baseplate.

The FF would seem to be out in front, where you can grab it, for both rigs. And both can use arms to move the LCD or EVF to the desired position.

Maybe it's just the weight? But, I see more pieces of metal going into the Wooden direction.

I know I"m asking a lot, but could you critique this video showing the Zacuto solution?

I'm just having a lot of trouble 'getting it' - but I respect the opinions of all the people who know a lot more than I do, so .... it's very frustrating that I can't see the big picture for some reason???

I can see why you are confused as the two systems seem to do the same thing. The zacuto plate is a step up from their previous offerings where the simply adapted older versions of their risers. The issue that I have with zacuto gear is not that it's badly made, it's just that in the past I've found it to be too heavy for what it needs to do and forces you into buying more of their gear in order to make it work. This riser plate looks to be a non standard height so if you ever want to put your camera on a 19mm baseplate, the 19mm mattebox may not line up correctly. This may not be an issue for you.
I guess that this is my main issue with zacuto ( asides from the fact that all of their gear names start with z ) is that their gear is non standard and does not like to play with industry standard equipment. There is also no tapped screw holes on any of their gear to hold accessories, this always requires a z-something to make it work.
The WC or innocinema riser plate works great for a lightweight 15mm rod setup and is industry standard.
Either will work, I just prefer wc or innocinema.

 

[Lliam Worthington]

Hey Les,

I have the Zacuto baseplate. I liked that is sat lower and with this model there is more flexibility where you can mount accessories off the 15mm side holes too. I thought it was good value and very good construction until I realised the 15mm rod clamps weren't strong enough (mainly one side) and my rods are spinning in the base plate once I put my hand grips onto them. I will need to send it back but just haven't gotten around to it so far. Not trying to scare you off, this could just be my unit - and you may not need the level of stability in the rods that i do by putting handles directly onto them.

Best

Lliam

 

[Jack Mosor]

WoodenCamera or CineCrew.net these are the places where I shop

 

[Les C.]

I can see why you are confused as the two systems seem to do the same thing. The zacuto plate is a step up from their previous offerings where the simply adapted older versions of their risers. The issue that I have with zacuto gear is not that it's badly made, it's just that in the past I've found it to be too heavy for what it needs to do and forces you into buying more of their gear in order to make it work. This riser plate looks to be a non standard height so if you ever want to put your camera on a 19mm baseplate, the 19mm mattebox may not line up correctly. This may not be an issue for you.
I guess that this is my main issue with zacuto ( asides from the fact that all of their gear names start with z ) is that their gear is non standard and does not like to play with industry standard equipment. There is also no tapped screw holes on any of their gear to hold accessories, this always requires a z-something to make it work.
The WC or innocinema riser plate works great for a lightweight 15mm rod setup and is industry standard.
Either will work, I just prefer wc or innocinema.

With the Zacuto Scarlet/Epic riser (added to the C300 Baseplate), it has 15mm LWS which are one of the standards the O-Box uses.

You have a point about the lack of tapped screw holes. I'll have to think about that, but it would probably be possible to add a Wooden top mount to get more holes, and the O-Box itself has a number of them.

Hey Les,

I have the Zacuto baseplate. I liked that is sat lower and with this model there is more flexibility where you can mount accessories off the 15mm side holes too. I thought it was good value and very good construction until I realised the 15mm rod clamps weren't strong enough (mainly one side) and my rods are spinning in the base plate once I put my hand grips onto them. I will need to send it back but just haven't gotten around to it so far. Not trying to scare you off, this could just be my unit - and you may not need the level of stability in the rods that i do by putting handles directly onto them.

Best

Lliam

Thanks, I hope that's not a common problem. They do have a lifetime warranty, so ... hopefully that will get resolved.

But, that brings up an interesting question. Do some rods get gripped better than others? I was considering adding the RedRock Carbon Fiber - but then there's Cinema Oxide?

 

[Lliam Worthington]

Yeah it's a good question. Anyone? I would have thought that the rods they shipped would grip though

I've heard of quite commonly anywhere up to .3 of a millimetre variances in "15" mm rods. So this would obviously be a key factor.

 

[Mike Tiffee]

Mike - I'm guessing you have a Wooden 'Easy Riser' and a LW 15mm Bracket?

Yes I have the Easy Riser and 15mm Bracket bolted on top of the WC 19mm Baseplate

Could you list your other components?

The other components I have are the 19mm WC Baseplate, Top Handle, A-BOX, A-Mount (attached to rear of shoulder mount), WC Quickback system for V-Mount, RED 9" Arm, WC Deluxe shoulder mount, WC Top plate

What does 'HH config' mean?

HH (hand held) Config means the rig is ready to take off the tripod and start shooting off the shoulder. Notice the camera is slid back balanced over the shoulder pad and the battery plate is mounted to the "A Mount" attached to the rear of the shoulder pad. THis moves more weight back and down and helps balance the camera nicely. Notice in the other tripod pic, the camera is slid forward to balance over the tripod. Also the battery is moved back to the camera for better balance. This takes literally two seconds with the WC quick back. Since the WC shoulder mount is based on one large dovetail, using the WC Baseplate you can very easily slide the camera forward and back.

My tripod didn't come with a quick release, but I have a Manfrotto 357 with a long plate:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554151-REG/Manfrotto_357_357_Pro_Quick_Release.html

hopefully, that will work in some fashion?

The plate you linked is very similar to the plate that came with my Cartoni. You can likely bolt that to the WC shoulder mount like I did.

What's the very long plate that looks like it's connected to the 'Easy Riser' by a piece of silver metal?

THe long plate you mention is the 19mm Baseplate. It now comes with a red release instead of the silver metal you see.

That articulating arm gives you a lot of flexibility. Do you ever need a hood over the LCD?

I do use the hood with the LCD

When the camera is right over your shoulder, can you reach everything?

I can reach everything I need to. THe only thing I have to do is mount my follow focus on the right side.

I guess it goes from tripod to shoulder in an instant, but ... how long does it take to assemble?

It probably takes 10 minutes to assemble the shoulder mount from pieces.

 

[Paul Toth]

I have a combination of Zacuto and Wooden Camera stuff. I have the WC top handle, Safety NATO, a couple of NATO clamps and some other odds n ends. I ended up going with Zacuto's Scarlet baseplate simply because I chose to use their EVF which slips nicely into the side 15mm (all my stuff is 15mm). I find both Zacuto and WC stuff to be well made and professional.

So far I have found that the baseplate works well and I have had no issues with it yet. I also quite like their EVF, it is sharp and works much like a Betacam style EVF would.

 

[Demetri Zuev]

I remember a fellow reduser having problems with Zacuto's Epic/Scarlet baseplate.

In particular he stated that it's imposible to open Sidehandle battery door while the camera is rigged on this baseplate.

 

[Paul Toth]

I remember a fellow reduser having problems with Zacuto's Epic/Scarlet baseplate.

In particular he stated that it's imposible to open Sidehandle battery door while the camera is rigged on this baseplate.

Mine opens just fine.

 

[Les C.]

I remember a fellow reduser having problems with Zacuto's Epic/Scarlet baseplate.

In particular he stated that it's imposible to open Sidehandle battery door while the camera is rigged on this baseplate.

They had to change a (is it called ?ratchet?) fastener to one that didn't stick out. It's reflected in the new pictures for the rod riser.

http://store.zacuto.com/rod-riser-for-se.html

 

[Chris Jordan]

I own the Zacuto Studio plate... It is SOLID and I love it. I think i'm the only one here to say so?! lol

 

[PatrickFaith]

Zacuto have been very much at the forefront of DSLR rigs these past few years - and (IMO) I see some of that design style reflected in what they're doing with this... it's their C300 solution with a riser (and those useful cross mount holes). Also, a lot of Zacuto's recent stuff has been built with the much lighter DSLR cameras in mind (and around 15mm LW) - were the Epic is heaver than other cameras (and would normally be rigged in 19mm or 15 mm studio)... For me, the Wooden Camera solutions (or the RED ones) are more thought out in terms of using larger lenses ... My thoughts are the Zacutio set up isn't what I'd want on set ... Primary to your choice (I think) should be how you monitor (EVF or LCD) and the position of this that works for you... Also, lens choice - are you PL or Canon? I only ask this in terms of FF use and mattebox choice... and you're right on the Redmote, if you're mounting your batteries on the back of your rig, your 'mote can sit on the back of your camera

I'm with Andy on this one, if your using your scarlet with canon lenses and want to stay more "light weight" vdslr ... zacuto is great. WC is great if you want to leave VDSLR land, and all the "weight gain" that entails ... as you step up to PL lenses, motor controlled focus/iris, larger tripods ... and all the other stuff you need for feature film and TV. I personally have been looking at moving away from my more light weight mounts, to ARRI dove tails, and really like the WC offering there.

 

[Cedric P.]

I totally agree with shane's posts.

Also I have a c300 studio baseplate and the rods keep spinning. It is very frustating with most accessories that sit on just one rod, like a durus cinevate follow focus for example.

i sent the basplate back to zacuto, their support was nice and they sent me back the baseplate, but with the exact same problem

And it's true that their gear push you to buy more and more of their gear to make it work, you end up with way too much stuff and weight to get the job done. A little bit frustrating

 

[Thomas Koba]

I've had the Zacuto baseplate, and it's ok. But it gets too fiddly when you start adding handles and shoulder pads and such. I've since bought the Shape Baseplate and I like it much more. Shoulder pad gets closer to the bottom of the camera, and the camera sits on your shoulder, not in front of your shoulder. Having the handles sepparate from the front rods is excellent too, as they don't get in the way of follow focus and mattebox. Best of all, it has the sony lock system, which lets you just click it right onto the tripod. Without too many in-between locking devices, which raise the camera too much and add too much weight.

http://www.shapewlb.com/en/product/...obalitemindex=3&aidcategorie=34&sort=TitreASC

 

[Les C.]

I totally agree with shane's posts.

Also I have a c300 studio baseplate and the rods keep spinning. It is very frustating with most accessories that sit on just one rod, like a durus cinevate follow focus for example.

i sent the basplate back to zacuto, their support was nice and they sent me back the baseplate, but with the exact same problem

And it's true that their gear push you to buy more and more of their gear to make it work, you end up with way too much stuff and weight to get the job done. A little bit frustrating

I have the Studio Baseplate for Scarlet and Epic Cameras http://store.zacuto.com/Studio-Baseplate-for-SE.html and have not had this problem.

Are you using the Zacuto rods, or have you replaced them with carbon fiber?

I'm considering adding short rods that would stay on the baseplate even when in a Pelican case (short enough to use a teleprompter), and then screw on the the long rods for O-Focus and O-Box - and hoping that if I stick with Zacuto that I won't have any issues. The front rods are a bit of a pain to lock in place and I wish they were tool-less.

Of course, the screw in rods might cause their own issues, so I'm curious if anyone has direct experience with using screw in rods?

 

[Cedric P.]

Yes, i am using the zacuto rods. The support was nice and they sent me a new plate with the same problem. To solve it they sent me another piece, the z-mount ( like the name Shane?). It does secure the 2 rods but adds some bulk and weight to the rig. I am very disappointed in this baseplate, $400 and can't hold a pair of rods in place...

the customer support was great but i end up with the same problem. I am actually looking at another baseplate, lighter and more efficient. I am ok to lose the side rod holes at that point.

any suggestions are welcome. I actually don't own a red camera but a canon c100

cheers