Seeking assistance with rods/rail systems for Scarlet

[Les C.]

OK I guess you would call my solution different.

It has been suggest by Lliam that I share my solution to this vexing issue. So here it is with some rationalisation for why I have done what I have done.

It seems to me most current QR systems & rods have been designed for Cine lens standards ( 19 mm & it seems even 15mm) That is a fixed camera and rods with all the adjustments happening up the front end to accommodate MB & FF systems. It seems with most designs, we are still caught in the 20 century with camera systems that weight a tonne. This does not acknowledge the reality of using a cutting edge 21st century digital camera on 15mm rods with still lenses and there huge variation in lengths of lens. For me the critical issue when using still lenses is not the length of lens but the distance from the end of the lens to the focus ring ie MB to FF distance. This seems to stay almost constant.

So my solution has been configured to give a versatile QR mount system on 15 mm rods that allows for camera movement at the back end for rapid re-adjustment of camera to accommodate different size still lenses ie modern L glass & then swapping over to a tiny Leica lens all with minimum fuss & all for under $400.

Here is my shopping list for individual elements which when combined create a highly versatile QR & rod system

Rail Blocks

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RailBlock-R...ltDomain_0&hash=item3cbaf270bd#ht_3121wt_1161

15mm block & plate

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tripod-Moun...ultDomain_0&hash=item19cecf2371#ht_538wt_1161

Manfrotto QR Plate

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Manfrott...ultDomain_0&hash=item58927d5c9e#ht_4764wt_927

Manfrotto Long Plate

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Manfrott...ultDomain_0&hash=item5892a46f18#ht_4236wt_927

Shop around you can get cheaper than some prices quoted .

The idea is you use the Manfrotto QR Pate + the 15mm Plate & block mounted in a line on the Manfrotto long plate or alternately a tripod plate of your choice. You may need a spacing block to rise the system up to give clearance on your tripod. This system allows the camera to slide up & down on it's QR system allowing for the following......

1) Easy positioning of camera In relation to MB & FF systems regardless of lens length Ie can shoot with 70 - 200 L Glass then swap over to a prime all on the same rig in seconds. Just slide the camera up or down the QR system to accommodate without the need to reconfigure the whole rig.

2) Almost Instant setup from tripod to shoulder mount plus easy balancing of the camera regardless of lens or battery configuration.

3) Instant demounting, for hand held shots from either shoulder or tripod mount.

4) A simple streamlined rig without tonnes of crap hanging off it.

5) You no longer need a "swing away" MB as you can now slide the camera back on the plate to allow for lens swaps

NOTE: This system raises the camera about 5mm above correct height which should not be a problem for adjustable MBs ie most good ones.. & shouldn't be a problem for better FF systems .

This system will not be for everyone, however if you want something that works whilst waiting for someone to design a better system then this could be for you.

If I get time over the weekend I will upload some pics of my Scarlet on this system.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the detailed post. Yes, would love to see some pics on how it works or a video on how it all goes together with a shoulder mount, MB, etc. - and more on which FF, MB, etc. you are using ... and why.

 

[Mike Garrick]

Hi Les

I posted pics & explanation on this thread from post 296 onwards..........

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?70147-Post-Your-Scarlet-X-Rig/page30

 

[Les C.]

Hi Les

I posted pics & explanation on this thread from post 296 onwards..........

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?70147-Post-Your-Scarlet-X-Rig/page30

Mike thanks for all the pictures!

Did you mention which FF you're using?

I'm trying to get my head around all the issues and hidden "gotcha's" in advance for getting a MB and FF to work well together with different lenses - and still be light, low cost, and easy to move from tripod to shoulder.

 

[Mike Garrick]

Hi Les

The FF was made by Gini Rig, its called the "I focus" It is a big sturdy FF similar in size to the Chrozeil 'Durus" It is robust, well made & affordable. Don't underestimate the size of this FF it is BIG & it doesn't come with hardstops, no big deal as most of my lenses are manual. The "biggest problem " (pun intended) is I also run Leica's off the setup & because of the FF size it doesn't have enough clearance between MB & the camera for the FF. I'm now weighting if to replace with a smaller more traditional FF.

You are right about the "Gotchas" personally I believe there are no real viable solutions for Scarlet on 15mm 60 spacing apart from maybe the gunner rig, awaiting reviews on that. So my attitude is get something up & running now affordably without the big buck outlay & wait for innovators to start innovating. Having gone this route I'm not so sure I'll be changing over unless I decide I need to go PL glass.

Everyone seems hooked up on how low the price is for this setup when I wasnt really concerned about that but something more important ....functionality .

 

[Justin Talley]

In terms of 'gotchas' with follow focus/matte box/lens combinations, I think the Arri MFF1 and the Zacuto Flippable FF are both great options. One of my configurations uses an extremely small lens coupled with a clamp on wide angle matte box and the Wooden Camera 15mm rod clamp which sticks out about an inch from the body of the camera.

The Lens - Zeiss ZF 50mm 1.4
The Matte Box - Genus
The Rod Clamp - Wooden Camera

My old Redrock FF could pull this off. While I was waiting for my Zacuto flippable I rigged rods to the top of the camera, slapped a couple of shims underneath the rod clamp to get above the height of my Redrock focus gears and attached my Redrock FF to the top rods. This worked rather well actually, but looked a bit too budget for my taste.

I now have the Zacuto Flippable and it works a treat even with my very shortest lens, matte box clamped on. I've used the MFF 1 and I know it can pull off the same magic. Truth be told, I actually prefer the Zacuto because the way the hard stops work on the MFF1 drive me a little crazy when you're not trying to use them, but they'll both keep you pretty 'gotcha' free.

 

[Mike Garrick]

Justin,

I have a problem with Zacuto flippable in that it requires the removal of the MB to take on or off the rails. The Arri on the other hand seems a better option for the dollars with its "clip on/off attachment . Interesting point about the hard stops though, as mentioned earlier I really don't desire that feature but it creates problems anyway.

 

[Brian Iannone]

Thanks, Brain. Cupid seemed like the obvious name for my camera when it finally arrived on Valentine's Day, but someone had already snagged it. I appreciate the link.

You say that as though multiple Scarlets can't have the same name...

Some users here had originally assumed that only one name is allowed per camera type (RED ONE, EPIC, Scarlet), however, Scarlet owners should be able to give their cameras whatever name they'd like without having to verify that the name's already been taken.

So, duplicate names are indeed allowed.

Let me know what your serial is and I'll add it to the list.

 

[Lliam Worthington]

OK I guess you would call my solution different.

It has been suggest by Lliam that I share my solution to this vexing issue. So here it is with some rationalisation for why I have done what I have done.

It seems to me most current QR systems & rods have been designed for Cine lens standards ( 19 mm & it seems even 15mm) That is a fixed camera and rods with all the adjustments happening up the front end to accommodate MB & FF systems. It seems with most designs, we are still caught in the 20 century with camera systems that weight a tonne. This does not acknowledge the reality of using a cutting edge 21st century digital camera on 15mm rods with still lenses and there huge variation in lengths of lens. For me the critical issue when using still lenses is not the length of lens but the distance from the end of the lens to the focus ring ie MB to FF distance. This seems to stay almost constant.

So my solution has been configured to give a versatile QR mount system on 15 mm rods that allows for camera movement at the back end for rapid re-adjustment of camera to accommodate different size still lenses ie modern L glass & then swapping over to a tiny Leica lens all with minimum fuss & all for under $400.

Here is my shopping list for individual elements which when combined create a highly versatile QR & rod system

Rail Blocks

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RailBlock-R...ltDomain_0&hash=item3cbaf270bd#ht_3121wt_1161

15mm block & plate

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tripod-Moun...ultDomain_0&hash=item19cecf2371#ht_538wt_1161

Manfrotto QR Plate

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Manfrott...ultDomain_0&hash=item58927d5c9e#ht_4764wt_927

Manfrotto Long Plate

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Manfrott...ultDomain_0&hash=item5892a46f18#ht_4236wt_927

Shop around you can get cheaper than some prices quoted .

The idea is you use the Manfrotto QR Pate + the 15mm Plate & block mounted in a line on the Manfrotto long plate or alternately a tripod plate of your choice. You may need a spacing block to rise the system up to give clearance on your tripod. This system allows the camera to slide up & down on it's QR system allowing for the following......

1) Easy positioning of camera In relation to MB & FF systems regardless of lens length Ie can shoot with 70 - 200 L Glass then swap over to a prime all on the same rig in seconds. Just slide the camera up or down the QR system to accommodate without the need to reconfigure the whole rig.

2) Almost Instant setup from tripod to shoulder mount plus easy balancing of the camera regardless of lens or battery configuration.

3) Instant demounting, for hand held shots from either shoulder or tripod mount.

4) A simple streamlined rig without tonnes of crap hanging off it.

5) You no longer need a "swing away" MB as you can now slide the camera back on the plate to allow for lens swaps

NOTE: This system raises the camera about 5mm above correct height which should not be a problem for adjustable MBs ie most good ones.. & shouldn't be a problem for better FF systems .

This system will not be for everyone, however if you want something that works whilst waiting for someone to design a better system then this could be for you.

If I get time over the weekend I will upload some pics of my Scarlet on this system.

Hope this helps.

Having had the chance to test out Mike's rig, I think the functionality is terrific and really it's an all round great set up. And the price point is a big plus for Indie film makers like me. Mike likes to emphasise his thirty second rule, and if it's not KISS it's out. Also it looks good - which is so what Mike is secretly all about )

I'd already bought the Zacuto offering, my focus was about trying to get a low profile for stability when shoulder mounting. But Mikes set up is excellent, and if I was still in need I'd have been all over Mike's setup. Or if I'd had the nouse to construct it myself.

I do like the Zacuto though. But haven't found a weight and balance with a shoulder pad that Im happy with yet. Currently waiting on the new Wooden Camera offering. Though it looks like it doesn't work off 15mm rails which i'll be bummed by. But a quick back counter weight system would be awesome.

 

[Mike Garrick]

Yep I am sooooo about looking good......I'm a real style myster......where's my stylist........thats why Im always behind the camera. ; )

 

[Les C.]

Hi Les

You are right about the "Gotchas" personally I believe there are no real viable solutions for Scarlet on 15mm 60 spacing apart from maybe the gunner rig, awaiting reviews on that. So my attitude is get something up & running now affordably without the big buck outlay & wait for innovators to start innovating. Having gone this route I'm not so sure I'll be changing over unless I decide I need to go PL glass.

Everyone seems hooked up on how low the price is for this setup when I wasnt really concerned about that but something more important ....functionality .

As a "rig-challenged' person who has never used a rig, what exactly are the "gotcha's"?

I'm thinking these are the main concerns to worry about, at the very least, but ... I'm probably missing many concerns?

1. Balance of where weight sits on shoulder.
2. Issues with MB fitting the rig, being high or low enough, hassle when change lens
3. FF issues, will it work, how do you easily reach the FF, hassle when change lens
4. Operating controls on the Scarlet (like record/stop).
5. Ease to remove shoulder mount and place onto tripod
6. Placement of LCD or EVF

I noticed that Zacuto is coming out with a Tornado (mechanical FF that is also a handgrip). That sounds very useful.

Hopefully there's a way to start/stop recording using a button on a handgrip also?

And, with Scarlet's hunger for batteries, maybe a simple way to power down/up?

 

[Justin Talley]

Mike - I rarely take the follow focus off of my rig in a situation where I wouldn't also be taking the matte box off so that doesn't bother me. also, if the hand wheel is in the way for a single shot, you can just loosen the tie down and pop the whole wheel/gear assembly off the rig leaving the clamp behind. You can also use this feature to flip the wheel to the opposite side of the lens without removing the actual clamp. Don't know if that changes your perception, but as a Nikon lens user the Zacuto offers that reverse pull feature I've so badly needed.

 

[Chris McKechnie]

Great info guys!

 

[Jonas Klittmark]

Mike, how sturdy is the Manfrotto QR and plate? Is it made for the kind of weights we are talking about with a fully rigged Scarlet?

 

[Marie-Catherine O'Malley]

Here is the solution SHAPE came out for the EPIC/SCARLET during the NAB
They Call it the BP7000
here is a video of the BP7000 mounted with an EPIC
their push button handles are amazing.
thinking about getting this one after talking with them at the NAB!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdmFuY1R-Vs&feature=player_embedded