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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Sound question

greg filipkowski

greg filipkowski

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I did test with my setup at home and it sounded great, however when I got to the shoot weird things started happening, in my experience the audio is either bad or not bad.
The audio would be perfect for 45 sec then it would get low for a .001 of a sec, for an untrained ear you would probably not pick it up. and the audio was near spiking, green all the way. But I believe it did happened when the actor would say something than stop then go again.

This is my setup
http://www.signvideo.com/xlr-pro_xlr_adapter-audio-mixer.htm

http://www.google.com/products/cata...T6ihBIPY0QHS6sGfCQ&ved=0CEoQ8gIwBQ#ps-sellers

Phantom was powered by AA

20FT XLR Cable
 
I experienced the same thing! It would often do it just at the head of the clip, then randomly throughout. Limiter is off.
 
This wasn't your only audio recorded was it? I'd never trust the sound going into RED as a primary audio track. Always use an external recorder and use the RED audio just to sync. You can always run the headphone out of your audio recorder to your input on the Scarlet and plug your headphones into the Scarlet. Or just split the signal at the headphone out.
 
Steve Yager said:
This wasn't your only audio recorded was it? I'd never trust the sound going into RED as a primary audio track. Always use an external recorder and use the RED audio just to sync. You can always run the headphone out of your audio recorder to your input on the Scarlet and plug your headphones into the Scarlet. Or just split the signal at the headphone out.
Click to expand...
I'm not quite sure why we shouldn't want to trust a $17K camera.

Of all the functions the RED performs, real-time handling of audio should be the least problematic.

I've recorded using a Canon camera as the only audio for years, and never had a single glitch.

I'd expect the same from RED.
 
I guess this illustrates the fact that RED are coming from Film/ Cinema background ie. external audio recorder independent of camera as opposed to say broadcast with audio running thru a mixer & into the camera. Whilst I sympathise with the above statement, after all my background is film/broadcast, I believe audio will "come good" with future updates just like the Red One did. Personally I would much rather have playback which everyone forgets was only implemented in Jan than solid audio. Think of all the Epic M guys paying 50K for no playback. Sit tight think Zen thoughts it will happen.......

In the mean time I will be duel recording onto both the camera & external audio recorder until audio is fully implemented.
 
Mike Garrick said:
I guess this illustrates the fact that RED are coming from Film/ Cinema background ie. external audio recorder independent of camera as opposed to say broadcast with audio running thru a mixer & into the camera. Whilst I sympathise with the above statement, after all my background is film/broadcast, I believe audio will "come good" with future updates just like the Red One did. Personally I would much rather have playback which everyone forgets was only implemented in Jan than solid audio. Think of all the Epic M guys paying 50K for no playback. Sit tight think Zen thoughts it will happen.......

In the mean time I will be duel recording onto both the camera & external audio recorder until audio is fully implemented.
Click to expand...
Mike - yes, I've certainly heard the admonition not to use the camera to record, but ... having had only 100% positive experiences with cameras at a fraction of the cost, it's hard to get my head around that concept (and of course, I've also missed the whole experience of having a DIT & a sound guy - so ... I've really been 'roughing it' ha ha.)

I read a lot of threads, and this is the first I've heard of a dropout problem, so ... I'm hoping against hope that it's earlier firmware, or 3rd party hardware related, and not a RED issue.

Every month, the camera just gets better, so ... we shall see.
 
You should absolutely be able to trust a "$17K" camera......to record pictures. Of all the two things it does, I would certainly hope recording pictures would be the least problematic. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say it does 1.5 things (sound being .5).

I see two issues here:

The first is the general idea of recording to any camera. For important work "your" audio should record to the dedicated recorder operated by the production mixer on your shoot. For web work, controlled sit-down interviews, b-roll, etc., you should definitely be able to trust the audio on a camera.

I put the word "your" in quotes above because on a "normal" shoot the audio is neither yours to record, be responsible for or comment on professionally. There are, paradoxically, a lot of DIY projects surrounding this $10K camera, so I know a lot of people are forced to do double duty and that it's in that context in which the questions here arise. I'm also a bit confused.

The other issue is how the Scarlet deals with audio and compared to any other camera I've used (apart from the 5D) it's less than what I would have hoped for. I've never seen this kind of input on any other camera. I would not consider audio it's great strength at this time. It is revealing to read what professional mixers say about it.



Les C. said:
I'm not quite sure why we shouldn't want to trust a $17K camera.

Of all the functions the RED performs, real-time handling of audio should be the least problematic.

I've recorded using a Canon camera as the only audio for years, and never had a single glitch.

I'd expect the same from RED.
Click to expand...
 
I don't think you are doing it's audio capabilities justice.

We did a series of very careful tests with one of the best sound engineers in Germany, Arno Wilms. He worked, among others, on "The Life of Others" and he has first-class testing gear in his lab. RED has come a long way since the first R1 regarding audio. The current implementation (without the Pro I/O module) has a few negatives, admitted:

– The mechanical quality of 3.5mm plugs is not pro, as we all know. Can be circumvented with one of the plates that extend to XLRs and keep any force from the plugs.

– The level is not studio level, it limits at 0dB (0.775 Volt), so you should use an attenuator when coming in with line levels

– The limiter has some problems with massive overload (like coming in with studio levels) at low frequencies, better avoid needing it

– No phantom power yet, can be replaced with external boxes (for you folks from Europe, Kortwich in Berlin has very good ones, designed by said engineer)

If you observe these points and have balanced wiring, the audio is excellent. Very good DR, very low distortion and crosstalk, quite reasonable frequency range. We tested it alongside the audio of a PIX 240, and we all know Sound Devices quality. Said engineer just mumbled something like "not bad" – and believe me, that guy is picky! He starts building his own gear if something ain't up to his expectations and even improved the audio output on the Alexa…
 
You have listed additional problems I hadn't even known about, thank you.

I'm not complaining. I am interested in making pictures with it and if it can't do craft services or makeup or scout locations or record sound it's not really a problem for me.

As a former production mixer I have standards that the average camera guy doesn't and, in a production atmosphere where it's believed that mixers are "impractical" or "extra baggage" (both quotes from camera guys), we frequently see instances where thinking carefully about sound is not only not done, but is actively discouraged.




Uli Plank said:
I don't think you are doing it's audio capabilities justice.

We did a series of very careful tests with one of the best sound engineers in Germany, Arno Wilms. He worked, among others, on "The Life of Others" and he has first-class testing gear in his lab. RED has come a long way since the first R1 regarding audio. The current implementation (without the Pro I/O module) has a few negatives, admitted:

– The mechanical quality of 3.5mm plugs is not pro, as we all know. Can be circumvented with one of the plates that extend to XLRs and keep any force from the plugs.

– The level is not studio level, it limits at 0dB (0.775 Volt), so you should use an attenuator when coming in with line levels

– The limiter has some problems with massive overload (like coming in with studio levels) at low frequencies, better avoid needing it

– No phantom power yet, can be replaced with external boxes (for you folks from Europe, Kortwich in Berlin has very good ones, designed by said engineer)

If you observe these points and have balanced wiring, the audio is excellent. Very good DR, very low distortion and crosstalk, quite reasonable frequency range. We tested it alongside the audio of a PIX 240, and we all know Sound Devices quality. Said engineer just mumbled something like "not bad" – and believe me, that guy is picky! He starts building his own gear if something ain't up to his expectations and even improved the audio output on the Alexa…
Click to expand...
 
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