Color balancing Scarlet-X and Canon C300

[Sanjin Jukic]

This probably going to be a long tread.

Main goal of the tread is bringing the Scarlet-X extremely close to a standard look of C300.

It's the first test of color balancing between those two cameras and more other test examples will come soon after this one.

So I just started with a very simple test to try out matching and balancing color between those two cameras using PS5.

Next tests will include grades in DaVinci Resolve, After Effects, FCP7, FCPX, etc.

Both cameras have installed the latest firmware updates, SCARLET Build v3.0.0 Firmware, .

Shot on Scarlet-X with Leica-R Summilux 50mm f/1.4 @ f/5.6, WB: 5000K, EI 800 (ISO), no filters, matching CC RCX + PS5.

Shot on Canon C300 with Leica-R Summilux 50mm f/1.4 @ f/5.6, WB: 5000K, EI 800 (ISO), no filters, no any CC.

Shot on Scarlet-X with Leica-R Varion Elmarit 28-90mm f/2.8-4 @ 35mm, f/5.6, WB: 3400K, EI 320 (ISO), Filters: 85N9 Tiffen, Circ-Pola Formatt, matching CC RCX + PS5.

Shot on Canon C300 with Leica-R Vario Elmarit 21-35mm f/3.5-4 @ 35mm, f/5.6, WB: K5000, EI 320 (ISO), Filters: ND4 in camera rotary ND filter, Circ-Pola Tiffen, no any CC.

BTS: Color balancing test between Scarlet-X and Canon C300.

BTS: Color balancing test between Scarlet-X and Canon C300.

The next test is coming soon.

Stay tuned.

 

[luigivaltulini]

Thanks Sanjin,
just waiting for this test, thanks.
I look forward to the next.

luigi

 

[Rodrigo Prata]

Hi Sanjin!

Thanks for sharing, but I have to ask: Why set the scarlet to 3400K and put an 85 filter? Why not just go with 5600K in câmera since it is what is closest to it`s native color temperature? And why not do the same with the C300?

Also, the two day scenes exposures don`t seen to match, the Scarlet`s one look a little under compared to the C300.

Do you Own both cameras? Any thoughts on how they compare to each other?

Best Regards!

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Thanks Sanjin,
just waiting for this test, thanks.
I look forward to the next.

luigi

Thanks Luigi,

I just started and hopefully everything will be okay in the end with those matching results.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi Sanjin!

Thanks for sharing, but I have to ask: Why set the scarlet to 3400K and put an 85 filter? Why not just go with 5600K in câmera since it is what is closest to it`s native color temperature? And why not do the same with the C300?

Also, the two day scenes exposures don`t seen to match, the Scarlet`s one look a little under compared to the C300.

Do you Own both cameras? Any thoughts on how they compare to each other?

Best Regards!

Rodrigo,

yes I owe both cameras.

And naturally have a learning curve with both of them at the beginning.

Also by my own experience with RED ONE M and MX after using ND1.2 you get a serious troubles with IR pollution and color shift even if you use a special IRND filter aka hot mirror from any brand.

At the beginning of this test I'll try with 85N9±CircPola and than later with ND1.2+IR±CircPola.

More or less they are two very different cameras and can perfectly compensate to each other.

It looks very similar if you would be able to shoot with two different film stocks and then your output format is mainly 2K or HD.

 

[Alvise Tedesco]

Hi Sanjin.
Interested in what you'll do here, but what's the point of showing small jpegs?
Btw, I'm so loving the Vario 28-90 (and the Elmarit 19, and the Summicron 35, and the Summicron 50)

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi Sanjin.
Interested in what you'll do here, but what's the point of showing small jpegs?
Btw, I'm so loving the Vario 28-90 (and the Elmarit 19, and the Summicron 35, and the Summicron 50)

The next examples will offer to get a full HD images or even a footage to download.

 

[Franck De Togni]

Thanks Sanjin for the test ! That could be very interresting.

 

[Paramon Ivanovich]

The next examples will offer to get a full HD images or even a footage to download.

that would be awesome!

 

[Les Dittert]

Have you tried a 3d lut to get the color to match ?

Here is Red colored to match Canon:

 

[Alan Carpenter]

Rez charts look interesting. Be nice to see originals. 4 leaf clover vs. pink eye.

 

[Iain Philpott]

I am really interested to see the results of this as I am really close to buying an Epic with a C300 as a B-Cam and to shoot on projects that do not stretch on budget/post.

 

[James Fleming]

"Thanks for sharing, but I have to ask: Why set the scarlet to 3400K and put an 85 filter? Why not just go with 5600K in câmera since it is what is closest to it`s native color temperature? And why not do the same with the C300?"

Interesting question. I could understand if you were going the other way - 80A filter under tungsten light to daylight adjust to the sensor's native 5000K so as not to clip the red channel - but why the 85 in daylight and shooting in tungsten WB? I'm sure you've got a reason. Just curious what it is. Is the c300 sensor natively closer to tungsten? It's interesting that in all these tests the Scarlet, being the more flexible camera, has to be the one to be adjusted to the lower image quality cameras, eg 5D, C300, and hence downgraded. It's got a new role as a chameleon B-cam, matching our other cameras. Seems like a bit of a waste but handy nonetheless when you need two cameras but don't need the higher quality of the Scarlet's native performance. I've got a Scarlet and a 5D and hadn't thought of using them together in this way until now. Some bright chaps will no doubt come up with some template colour-matching settings in RedCine X for Scarlet to match these other cameras. If I beat them to it I'll post the results.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

C300 moiré pattern and sensor blooming

C300 moiré pattern and sensor blooming

"Thanks for sharing, but I have to ask: Why set the scarlet to 3400K and put an 85 filter? Why not just go with 5600K in câmera since it is what is closest to it`s native color temperature? And why not do the same with the C300?"

Interesting question. I could understand if you were going the other way - 80A filter under tungsten light to daylight adjust to the sensor's native 5000K so as not to clip the red channel - but why the 85 in daylight and shooting in tungsten WB? I'm sure you've got a reason. Just curious what it is. Is the c300 sensor natively closer to tungsten? It's interesting that in all these tests the Scarlet, being the more flexible camera, has to be the one to be adjusted to the lower image quality cameras, eg 5D, C300, and hence downgraded. It's got a new role as a chameleon B-cam, matching our other cameras. Seems like a bit of a waste but handy nonetheless when you need two cameras but don't need the higher quality of the Scarlet's native performance. I've got a Scarlet and a 5D and hadn't thought of using them together in this way until now. Some bright chaps will no doubt come up with some template colour-matching settings in RedCine X for Scarlet to match these other cameras. If I beat them to it I'll post the results.

The main reason that I will use more often this combination of 85N9±CircPola filters is that I found a color shift with that particular combination

is more pleasant than what I get with combo ND1.2 or ND.1.6...plus any of HotMirrors especially with a comparison at the sky color.

Also I will use more often that combo but of course not all the time and it depends on many different circumstances...

One of the reason I bought C300 is because of its superior low light performance (!!!???).

But I still have to do some serious testing in that direction to confirm or deny this performance.

Now go back to the real world test to see one new outdoor test from yesterday where I found out that Scarlet just beats C300 in many ways.

It's about the significant flaws of C300 that showed up at the exterior sunny daylight testing from yesterday

and also of the same I couldn't find on Scarlet-X images.


So what happened?

The same artifacts that you can find mostly at any DSLR footage:

1. Spatial aliasing with the Moiré pattern
2. Sensor blooming made the brightening or overexposing of the pixels that showed up with green color fringing.
3. Monitoring on C300 with LCD and viewfinder in a bright sunny daylight also sucks.

Read more about C300 Moiré by Aliister Chapman.

BTW, Scarlet-X totally smashed C300 at outdoor bright daylight with on the camera monitoring (RED PRO 5.0" TS), easy in camera adjustment, image quality (IQ)

and also incredible post pre-viewing of R3D RAW files using RED ROCKET HD-SDI at HP Dreamcolor a wide gamut 24" LCD with RCX-Pro RAW post processing of the images.

Also I was running those first tests with C300 at default camera adjustment (see above) that probably should be change in the future...

Have a look at the images below in click at the image to enlarge in HD 1080 16:9 size:


The Spatial aliasing with the Moiré pattern visible at the striped wooden facade of the building.
Shot on Canon C300 with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 28-90mm f/2.8-4 @35mm, EI 850 (ISO), f/8, 6600K, Filters: ND2 (4 stops) in camera, Circ-Pola Tiffen.

DETAIL: The Spatial aliasing with the Moiré pattern visible at the striped wooden facade of the building.
Shot on Canon C300 with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 28-90mm f/2.8-4 @35mm, EI 850 (ISO), f/8, 6600K, Filters: ND2 (4 stops) in camera, Circ-Pola Tiffen.


No any visible spatial aliasing with the Moiré pattern.
Shot on Scarlet-X with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 21-35mm f/3.5-4 @ 35mm, EI 320 (ISO), f/8, 3400K, Filters: 85N9 Tiffen, Circ-Pola Formatt.

DETAIL: No any visible spatial aliasing with the Moiré pattern.
Shot on Scarlet-X with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 21-35mm f/3.5-4 @ 35mm, EI 320 (ISO), f/8, 3400K, Filters: 85N9 Tiffen, Circ-Pola Format


The sensor blooming made the brightening or overexposing of the pixels that showed up with the green color fringing.
Shot on Canon C300 with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 28-90mm f/2.8-4 @35mm, EI 850 (ISO), f/8, 6600K, Filters: ND2 (4 stops) in camera, Circ-Pola Tiffen.

DETAIL: The sensor blooming made the brightening or overexposing of the pixels that showed up with the green color fringing.
Shot on Canon C300 with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 28-90mm f/2.8-4 @35mm, EI 850 (ISO), f/8, 6600K, Filters: ND2 (4 stops) in camera, Circ-Pola Tiffen.


No any visible sensor blooming or similar artifacts and aberrations.
Shot on Scarlet-X with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 21-35mm f/3.5-4 @ 35mm, EI 320 (ISO), f/8, 3400K, Filters: 85N9 Tiffen, Circ-Pola Formatt.

DETAIL: No any visible sensor blooming or similar artifacts and aberrations.
Shot on Scarlet-X with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 21-35mm f/3.5-4 @ 35mm, EI 320 (ISO), f/8, 3400K, Filters: 85N9 Tiffen, Circ-Pola Formatt.

Day Two Outdoor Test BTS shot on Canon 5DMK2 with Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II USM: Scarlet-X and Canon C300on the beach.

Day Two Outdoor Test BTS shot on Canon 5DMK2 with Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II USM: Scarlet-X and Canon C300 on the beach.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Have you tried a 3d lut to get the color to match ?

Here is Red colored to match Canon:

No I haven't still try out with any 3D LUT.

That would come probably later in a sort of fine tuning phase.

The first are more or less a rough tests...

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

thanks for the tests Sanjin

 

[Jake Bastian]

Sanjin, these are really interesting tests but I have to say that regardless of your personal preference for how the 85 filter corrects the color shift when using ND filters on RED camera this is NOT the proper way to correct this shift and will only result in an image that has IR pollution AND 85 color tint.

I recognize that this is not really a scientific test per say, but if you really want to balance the color between two cameras, it's best to start the most pure color possible from both cameras. The way to do that is with an IR or preferably Hot Mirror filter on the Scarlet, not an 85.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

thanks for the tests Sanjin

Kemalettin,

You're welcome!

Sanjin, these are really interesting tests but I have to say that regardless of your personal preference for how the 85 filter corrects the color shift when using ND filters on RED camera this is NOT the proper way to correct this shift and will only result in an image that has IR pollution AND 85 color tint.

I recognize that this is not really a scientific test per say, but if you really want to balance the color between two cameras, it's best to start the most pure color possible from both cameras. The way to do that is with an IR or preferably Hot Mirror filter on the Scarlet, not an 85.

Jake,

Also it's not only about a color shift in blacks using Hot Mirrors, it's more about getting a true blue sky(s) with 85ND9±Pola filters.

My next outdoor test will also include both variants 85N9 (that's actually in one glass filter, also I have another one as a gel slice from LEE Filters), ND0.9+Hot Mirror and ND1.2+Hot Mirror.

Then we'll see what is better?!

 

[Jake Bastian]

Awesome! I'll look forward to seeing the results.

 

[Alvise Tedesco]

Thanks Sanjin!!!
If many, here, aren't surprised, I am.
Happily surprised and I will sell your findings with my Scarlet
At least before dusk, hehe