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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Differences in Noise

R

RivaiC

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After some scary moment with my EPIC output...

I discover something pretty confusing and interesting. Check out both of these picture. Take on the same day, same set, same exposure, same talent but different firmware.

The characteristic of the noise is very different. I posted before about snowy epic footage, i hope this can explain what i mean. But this result has got me thinking, why can it be different on different firmware ? I prefer the one on 2.05 build rather than 2.08

The picture is 100%, feel free to zoom in and see

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6752/firmware208trv.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/871/firmware205trv.jpg

R
 
Absolutely..both of these takes are taken at the mid and end, not beginning of the shoot

But even so, im surprised if we had to deal with temperature problems

R
 
It is more towards tungsten at iso800 issue, at not enough lights. Im fine with firmware 2.05

Im outside office right now, will pm u when i have the link

R
 
Forgive me if you've already done the obvious but have you black shaded because this is exactly what black-shading is for.

The "snowy" noise looks like Fixed Pattern Noise. Black shading will find that snowy pattern and map it out.
 
I can say that blackshade on 2.08 was 2-3weeks ago before i had incident today earlier on that force me to downgrade and done blackshade immediately on the spot.

With this, it comes a question, how often do we need to blackshade ?

R
 
RivaiC said:
After some scary moment with my EPIC output...

I discover something pretty confusing and interesting. Check out both of these picture. Take on the same day, same set, same exposure, same talent but different firmware.

The characteristic of the noise is very different. I posted before about snowy epic footage, i hope this can explain what i mean. But this result has got me thinking, why can it be different on different firmware ? I prefer the one on 2.05 build rather than 2.08

The picture is 100%, feel free to zoom in and see

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6752/firmware208trv.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/871/firmware205trv.jpg

R
Click to expand...

The first image has the sensor pattern noise (when you push exposure the sensor pattern becomes visible.)

The second looks like better sensor response in that your getting just noise instead of the pattern. Both images are underexposed and under tungsten which will give you a noisier image. Black shade will help clean up the noise and Neat Video will remove the noise in the second image.

Black shade the first day of every shoot but make sure the camera is warmed up first. You will also have to black shade if your increasing your frame rate. It's not necessary to do it this often but it's good practice in keeping the sensor calibrated. (Always make sure to let the camera warm up before black shading or you will get terrible results.)
 
Image 1 is FPN from bad black shading.

Image 2 is wavelet compression artifacts, exacerbated by underexposure/push process. Were you shooting high FPS?
 
Thanks Matt

Totally agree, black shade on every shoot

Rivai
 
Cail Young said:
Image 1 is FPN from bad black shading.

Image 2 is wavelet compression artifacts, exacerbated by underexposure/push process. Were you shooting high FPS?
Click to expand...

Yes it was shot on 3k 150fps.

Firmware 2.08 is no good for me. Stay on 2.05 for the time being

R
 
FYI.. if you use upgrade the camera firmware or restore to factory defaults the camera will default to it's original calibration map. In 2.0.8 we provide the option to re-select your previous black shade: Settings->Maintenance->Calibration .. then select your desired calibration map.
 
TheBied said:
FYI.. if you use upgrade the camera firmware or restore to factory defaults the camera will default to it's original calibration map. In 2.0.8 we provide the option to re-select your previous black shade: Settings->Maintenance->Calibration .. then select your desired calibration map.
Click to expand...

No way! That's a great tip, I could've used this today.
 
TheBied said:
FYI.. if you use upgrade the camera firmware or restore to factory defaults the camera will default to it's original calibration map. In 2.0.8 we provide the option to re-select your previous black shade: Settings->Maintenance->Calibration .. then select your desired calibration map.
Click to expand...

U mean even if we have reinstall the firmware ? Let's say my desire calibration is on 2.05 and then i upgrade to 2.08, can i select the desire calibration ?

Thanks
Rivai
 
Matt Ryan said:
The first image has the sensor pattern noise (when you push exposure the sensor pattern becomes visible.)

The second looks like better sensor response in that your getting just noise instead of the pattern. Both images are underexposed and under tungsten which will give you a noisier image. Black shade will help clean up the noise and Neat Video will remove the noise in the second image.

Black shade the first day of every shoot but make sure the camera is warmed up first. You will also have to black shade if your increasing your frame rate. It's not necessary to do it this often but it's good practice in keeping the sensor calibrated. (Always make sure to let the camera warm up before black shading or you will get terrible results.)
Click to expand...

I agree with everything except the black shade when increasing frame rate. I've found that black shading (after warm up) at "normal" framerate like 25fps, and then shooting varispeed at higher framerates does NOT usually require a new blackshade. If that was the case, it would make Epic unusable for the high end food adverts I've been working with. We change framerates multiple times during a shooting day - often on every setup. There's no way we could wait for a 20min plus blackshade everytime!

We do, however, blackshade when switching to and from much slower framerates than the base framerate.
 
RivaiC said:
U mean even if we have reinstall the firmware ? Let's say my desire calibration is on 2.05 and then i upgrade to 2.08, can i select the desire calibration ?

Thanks
Rivai
Click to expand...

Yes, you can switch back to your old calibration map after upgrading. Just pull down on the calmap list and select the map you'd like (default or user).
 
ericyoung said:
I agree with everything except the black shade when increasing frame rate. I've found that black shading (after warm up) at "normal" framerate like 25fps, and then shooting varispeed at higher framerates does NOT usually require a new blackshade. If that was the case, it would make Epic unusable for the high end food adverts I've been working with. We change framerates multiple times during a shooting day - often on every setup. There's no way we could wait for a 20min plus blackshade everytime!

We do, however, blackshade when switching to and from much slower framerates than the base framerate.
Click to expand...

Black shading is really only required when there are changes in sensor temperature or for long shutter speeds. It is a good idea to let the camera come up to temp before black shading.

Black shading (Default) is good for most situations, including high speed.

Black shading (Current FPS/Exposure) is intended for slow frame rates and long shutter speeds.

Also, if you look at the system configuration screen.. the sensor temperature and shutter speed is shown for your user calibration.
 
TheBied said:
Black shading is really only required when there are changes in sensor temperature or for long shutter speeds. It is a good idea to let the camera come up to temp before black shading.

Black shading (Default) is good for most situations, including high speed.

Black shading (Current FPS/Exposure) is intended for slow frame rates and long shutter speeds.

Also, if you look at the system configuration screen.. the sensor temperature and shutter speed is shown for your user calibration.
Click to expand...

This is great information. Honestly, it could be worthwhile to add it as a note in the User Manual if it already isn't there...
 
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