How about a cheap "RESCUE SSD" for firmware restores?

[Chris Hagan]

I recall reading about other users keeping 1 or 2 SSD's set aside for firmware restores should the need arise. I like the idea but not the price tag. So it got me thinking, could RED develop a smaller SSD that is only capable of performing firmware installs? Something similar to the flash drives that come with SmallHD monitors or old Macbook Airs but in an RED SSD form factor. It presumably doesn't have to be rated as high as the current SSD media and the firmware could lock it out from recording.

 

[Justin Marx]

I recall reading about other users keeping 1 or 2 SSD's set aside for firmware restores should the need arise. I like the idea but not the price tag. So it got me thinking, could RED develop a smaller SSD that is only capable of performing firmware installs? Something similar to the flash drives that come with SmallHD monitors or old Macbook Airs but in an RED SSD form factor. It presumably doesn't have to be rated as high as the current SSD media and the firmware could lock it out from recording.

Good idea!!

 

[Jon Carr]

+1 please

 

[K. cromwell]

Interesting idea... I like.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

me2

 

[Trent Lillehaugen]

There is rarely ever a need to reinstall your firmware. The reason this usually seems to work is that a force upgrade does 2 things - restore the factory default settings and perform a firmware upgrade. 99.9% of the time, all you need to do is restore the factory default settings -- which you can do from the SETTINGS->MAINTENANCE dialog.

 

[roryhinds]

I think this would be really useful to many many people.
Its always good to have a solid firmware you know works that you can flip back to should you find yourself in a situation where the beta build or newer build has bugs.

Please Red make these.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

RED ONE only required a relatively inexpensive 8gb card to carry around a firmware reinstall....with the EPIC/SCARLET, it's a $950 investment to accomplish the same thing. and it's overkill.

with a four-pack of 128 cards, I basically find myself devoting one of these to the firmware reinstall, so that I don't have to shell out another $950 just to buy a 64gb card to do it - again, a poor use of resources and and even worse form of overkill. it may be one of those things which "rarely" is required, but when your shoot is one of those rare moments, you will thank the heavens that you took care of business.

it's a good idea.

 

[jimhare]

I have been on two shoots when I have had to force reinstall the firmware. Both times there were no other options as I was completely and unquestionably locked out.

In one case I had my laptop and Red Station with me, so it was easy to download the firmware, move it to an SSD and reinstall. The other time I didn't, and that was the end of my shooting day, which was luckily just doing tests for a friend. Was able to fix it instantly back at the studio.

On all important shoots I now make sure to pack the laptop and Red Station unless I have enough SSDs to dedicate one to firmware.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

I have been on two shoots when I have had to force reinstall the firmware. Both times there were no other options as I was completely and unquestionably locked out.

So have I, well two days on the same shoot. Had to set a 128GB SSD aside the second day just for firmware upgrade emergencies, and did end up having to use it. Seems silly to have to carry around an extra $1-2k SSD just to be sure you have a camera that works through the day. That was an EPIC running a release build and it was a rental so it wasnt as big of a deal since we had plenty of media for our purposes, but I can't afford to have that problem with my Scarlet since I can only afford 2 64GB SSDs for it.

+1 for the inexpensive firmware upgrade option, maybe some cheap media we can store firmwares and looks and settings on?

 

[Mike Tiffee]

+1! And maybe it's time for a price cut too.

 

[Justin Marx]

There is rarely ever a need to reinstall your firmware. The reason this usually seems to work is that a force upgrade does 2 things - restore the factory default settings and perform a firmware upgrade. 99.9% of the time, all you need to do is restore the factory default settings -- which you can do from the SETTINGS->MAINTENANCE dialog.

Trent, you should know that on a set, that .1% can shut a $200,000 shoot down quickly.. Were just looking avoid dedicating a $1500 card with firmware installed for that .1% when we need it. We can't always have a computer on set, and the ease of having it readily available in the camera package is huge.

 

[A. Clint Litton]

+1

I believe David Battistella had a great idea of making the card a different color, so as to easily differentiate its purpose...I'd buy one in a heartbeat, if only to have that extra peace-of-mind that I could literally keep in my back pocket.

As an alternative, redmag 1.8" CF adapter?

 

[Ryan Hamblin]

I understand the want for this nd I old probably bygone but why not just have your laptop with the firm ware on it and copy ove to an ssd when needed?

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

There is rarely ever a need to reinstall your firmware.

Does RED have data on this so we can see what their definition of rare is in this case? Of course my experience and that of many others is anecdotal, but for those of us who have encountered bricked cameras in the field that have only responded to forcing firmware re-installs, your definition of rare may not be enough for us to stop worrying about this issue. As I mentioned I used a rented EPIC-M with the latest release firmware (at the time) for 3 days that bricked pretty much every time I chose 4kHD mode and I've read enough about many people having to force firmware reinstalls in the field due to bricking that your taking the issue so lightly is not very reassuring.

Until RED can show us that latest firmwares have much lower prevalence of bricking or issues, it would be great if you could take our concerns seriously and consider this inexpensive rescue ssd idea. Firmware instability is a reality that many people have encountered, we are just looking for a way to minimize the worry and likelihood of it causing huge problems on set. We still use these cameras despite some of their instability partly because we appreciate that the constant firmware development and release schedule is beneficial for us owners feature-wise, and we accept instability for that but if you can give us tools to make instability less of a concern, that would be even better.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

I understand the want for this nd I old probably bygone but why not just have your laptop with the firm ware on it and copy ove to an ssd when needed?

True, this works too as long as you have a laptop set up nearby and an SSD to spare for the process at the time, but it also takes a bit more time and work and may not always be possible. For example in a run and gun or multi-cam environment, where timing is more sensitive and DITs are not as close by, a firmware reinstall might take the camera down for a critical hour (Ketch's experience comes to mind). An SSD can fit in a pocket and take only 1min to reinstall, a laptop has to be set up and kept or carried around nearby. In many other cases, being ready with firmware files and a laptop and REDMAG reader may be enough, it was when it happened to me on set, it turned out fine.

If our cameras can fail at any moment, even the most critical moment, id rather know that it can be fixed in 1min with an ssd in my pocket than by taking the camera to a download station if there is one at that moment and doing copies and firmware installs there even if that may in some circumstances take as little as 10min.

 

[Justin Marx]

I understand the want for this nd I old probably bygone but why not just have your laptop with the firm ware on it and copy ove to an ssd when needed?

That takes time.. Time on a large shoot you can't spare.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

I understand the want for this nd I old probably bygone but why not just have your laptop with the firm ware on it and copy ove to an ssd when needed?

Because you still need a spare card available to load it into the camera - the net result is the same. Unless you want your set waiting for you to backup the data, load the firmware, etc. - then you're doing a half-assed backup job and cleaning that same card prematurely, before you can data check, etc. ...not a solution.

 

[Jason Diamond]

Why would you need an SSD set aside for firmware re-installs?

You can just copy the force upgrade to any SSD without reformatting it and then just delete that folder form the SSD after you upgrade without affecting any data on the SSD as far as i know.

 

[A. Clint Litton]

I've been in shooting environments where it wasn't practical to have a laptop and reader on hand and set up. I know this is probably a rare circumstance and would never be my preference, but it's been the case. As such, when beta v.2 with playback came out, I didn't upgrade until I knew that we'd need playback of overcranked footage, and to cover myself in the case of any major issues using the beta firmware, I kept one of my 256gb SSDs set aside with release firmware on it. Not very practical...

And while I agree that in theory it shouldn't take more than an extra few minutes to put a force upgrade onto an ssd via laptop and redstation, why does that have to be the best case scenario? If we're shooting in a remote location and the laptop in question is a small trek away, but I can have the emergency SSD within a close proximity to camera, doesn't that seem like a vastly better solution? Again, Ketch's NYE situation comes to mind...sometimes you really can't afford to wait.

My 2 cents,
Clint