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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

ocnfused about hdmi 1080p6o when shooting at 23.976?

L

Les C.

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I'm a bit confused about what is coming out of the hdmi port when shooting at 23.976?

I get the impression that it always going to be 1080p60, even if shooting at 23.976.

Is this the case?

I hope that it would be able to output at 1080p23.98 when capturing at 23.976 as that's what my existing equipment can capture? Or - packed into 1080i as the Canon cameras do. The only output I can't handle is 1080p60.

Backwards compatibility with existing equipment would be useful in many cases - and I'm thinking of ProRes capture devices and possibly some monitors.

After all, we want to put all our available cash into RED products, right?

Thanks!
 
We're doing a video on this right now for the RED102 course.. At this time I can tell you that for the HD-SDI, the output will match your timebase. We've confirmed:
23.98, 29.97, and 59.98

Will check the HDMI A.S.A.P.

Jay
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
We're doing a video on this right now for the RED102 course.. At this time I can tell you that for the HD-SDI, the output will match your timebase. We've confirmed:
23.98, 29.97, and 59.98

Will check the HDMI A.S.A.P.

Jay
Click to expand...
Jay - did you get a chance to check the HDMI? Thanks, Les
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Yes Les.. Results are at office.. Will put them here when I get in tomorrow
Click to expand...
Jay -Trying to make a decision on a product that depends on the hdmi output format. Won't work with only 1080p60.

Looking forward to those results!

And - of course - your upcoming Scarlet courses!

Thanks, Les
 
Les I am sorry I took so long on this.. I do not have good news yet.. I decided to test this with a NanoFlash since it would tell me the frame rates it's picking up from the EPIC.. As of right now, I am not getting any feed.. So I cleary have to work on this a little bit. Still working as we speak, if I have more info in the next few min I'll enter it here..
I've seen others using HDMI so I need to check to see if I am doing something wrong.
Jay
 
Update. nanoflash just kicked in.. I am picking up a 720 60p signal.. I did select 720 but I am using a 29.97 timebase.. Still researching

Les I don't want to stand by this 100% but I can tell you this so far:

It looks like all the HDMI can do for timebase is 60p. I am unable to find a way to do anything else. I'm more of an HD-SDI guy so I am fighting a learning curve here anyway!

What I CAN tell you is that under the screen menu where you select your monitor, there are a number of choices for your timebase under HD-SDI but there are no choices for HDMI.. Only resolution: 720 and 1080.

May I ask why you are so set on getting HDMI to do all this stuff?

Jay
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Update. nanoflash just kicked in.. I am picking up a 720 60p signal.. I did select 720 but I am using a 29.97 timebase.. Still researching

Les I don't want to stand by this 100% but I can tell you this so far:

It looks like all the HDMI can do for timebase is 60p. I am unable to find a way to do anything else. I'm more of an HD-SDI guy so I am fighting a learning curve here anyway!

What I CAN tell you is that under the screen menu where you select your monitor, there are a number of choices for your timebase under HD-SDI but there are no choices for HDMI.. Only resolution: 720 and 1080.

May I ask why you are so set on getting HDMI to do all this stuff?

Jay
Click to expand...
Jay - I use a BlackMagic intensity card that is tethered to my existing camera to record my sessions live, without mpeg compression and at 1920 x 1080 23.976. The camera packs this into a 60i for the hdmi.

I use an hdmi splitter so that I have a large monitor to view down where the camera is (hdmi can easily go about 10 meters). This helps with framing and with focus.

This is very convenient. I can immediately view the footage on large screen displays in the studio, with sound coming out of studio monitors, and know that I got exactly the take I needed before the session is over.

I use FCP7 for this currently, but am moving to Premiere/AE 5.5.

I can review this with the talent, and easily show them things I'd like to correct in their performance or voice.

With the Scarlet I have on order, I'd like to do the same thing. I'd be able to insure that the sound and performance was ok, as there would be a major time lag to get the flash footage out of the Scarlet.

I'd use the 4K flash for production

If something goes wrong with the Scarlet recording the footage (bound to happen at some point), and I don't find this out until later due to the time lag it takes to view the flash footage, I'll still have very usable 1920x1080 as a backup.

My perception is that the Scarlet is limited to 60p, and my perception is that many HDMI displays may have trouble with this.

The BlackMagic Intensity won't capture 1080p60 (except for the Thunderbolt version, which won't even work on a Mac Pro). I can capture (1080i50, 1080i59.94, 1080i60, 1080p23.98, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p29.97, 1080p30, 720p50, 720p59.94 and 720p60.)

So, if I can't get that to work, I'm out of luck for my current workflow.

Many 3rd party solutions such as the nonoFlash may not work at 1080 unless RED modifies the hdmi output to support packing 23.976 into 1080i - as that's the output of most of the cameras currently.

I think it would make the cost of entry to buy a Scarlet lower (thus more sales) if users could use their existing nanoFlashes, Intensity, etc. - as the cost goes up by a few thousand if they have to purchase competing products that may deal with 1080p60.

Thanks!
 
HDMI will always be 60 fps refresh under current camera software. HD-SDI output provides a number of frame refresh choices.
 
Stuart English said:
HDMI will always be 60 fps refresh under current camera software. HD-SDI output provides a number of frame refresh choices.
Click to expand...

Stuart - on a Windows machine, neither the Black Magic Intensity nor the Matrox MX02 will capture at 1080p60 (I just looked at the MX02 specs).

I would guess that this will also affect many other 3rd party capture devices, such as the NanoFlash that Jay uses - and other 3rd party capture devices - and also many HDMI monitors and HDMI splitters.

Is RED in motion to remedy this?

I don't have a workaround for this at all and backward compatibility with existing equipment may be very important for other Scarlet/Epic users.

Especially when using beta software, having a backup when shooting, and having an easy way to monitor externally, is very important.

Thanks!!!
 
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