Student access to expensive gear?

[Tom Greenberg]

I'm curious to find out how different film schools deal with student access to equipment. We are rapidly building up our inventory of equipment, and have started to acquire some pretty expensive and often delicate gear. In the past, our policy has been to let students check out equipment whenever they want, use it as much as possible, and hope that we have done a good job of teaching them how to take care of it. If something gets damaged, we pay for the repairs and write it off to "educational collateral damage".

That policy works fine with C-stands, dollies and light kits, but when it comes to things like expensive lenses, cameras, and audio equipment, I'm struggling with where to draw the line between student access and protecting the gear. In general, our students take pretty good care of gear, but sometimes they are careless, sloppy or negligent. I hate to limit access to equipment just because I'm afraid something might happen to it. The reason we have the gear in the first place is to let students get familiar with real industry equipment so that they will be more prepared when they move into the job market. At the same time, if a lens gets damaged by one student who was careless, then the rest of our students are deprived of its use until it's repaired...not to mention the high repair costs. And when it comes to the really expensive stuff, we usually only have one of whatever it is, so that magnifies the problem.

Budgets are tight in higher education these days (and everywhere else), and we have to work very hard to fundraise the dollars used to buy quality equipment. As a private college, all of our money comes from tuition and donors...no state or federal revenue. Putting that equipment at risk is very hard when you know how much effort it took to get that gear in the first place.

I'm interested to hear the thoughts of the RED community on this subject. Please let me know how your school (whether you teach or were a student) handles equipment access.

 

[axel ebermann]

When I went to film school they had one treasured insanely loud Arri SR1.
This camera was so treasured, that you had to be the pope to be able to take it out.

So nobody ever bothered. The camera sat on the shelve for the entire time I went to
school there. Nobody I know ever used it. They most probably sold it for 200 bucks on ebay by now.

Stuff gets broken in film school. That is an unfortunate fact. What I would suggest is to rather
buy equipment that is not that expensive and more of it to accommodate for breakage. There are
plenty of affordable large sensor cameras and lenses out there.

Do students necessarily need to shoot on Epics / Scarlets and Cine glass these days ? Nope.
Unless you are extremely well funded you will never be able to let them use all the top
gear that is out there anyways.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

Stuff gets broken in film school. That is an unfortunate fact. What I would suggest is to rather
buy equipment that is not that expensive and more of it to accommodate for breakage. There are plenty of affordable large sensor cameras and lenses out there. Do students necessarily need to shoot on Epics / Scarlets and Cine glass these days ? Nope. Unless you are extremely well funded you will never be able to let them use all the top
gear that is out there anyways.

I agree with you, Axel. For the bulk of our equipment, I try to buy mid-range but still professional gear, for them to use. And we generally buy multiples of everything. But I also want them to have the opportunity to learn how to shoot on RED or use other high-end gear...that experience will make them more employable when they get into the "real" world. Epic is out of our price range, but R1 and Scarlet are not. And from a school standpoint, where this gear does not directly generate revenue, it is hard to explain to a risk-adverse administrator that your $25K camera rig went down because some student decided he could move it by himself and now needs to go in for major surgery. And while still lenses are a lot cheaper than cine lenses, even a $2000 Canon L lens can hardly be considered "disposable", at least from our perspective.

 

[Jon Carr]

NYFA has 6 REDone's in the NY campus and EPIC's in LA. But mostly its a selling point for the school.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

NYFA has 6 REDone's in the NY campus and EPIC's in LA. But mostly its a selling point for the school.

Do they let students have regular access to them, Jon? Or do they have some sort of training they have to do before they are allowed to use them?

 

[Jon Carr]

Do they let students have regular access to them, Jon? Or do they have some sort of training they have to do before they are allowed to use them?

Only cinematography students and 2nd students year have sole access to the RED's.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Columbia College Hollywood has an assortment of camera's and gear. Red One MX, Sony F3, Sony EX3's, Panasonic HPX, Arri SR3,2x SR2, SR1, Arri 435, plenty of support accessories, arri ff's, Oconnor 2060 tripods, Zeiss CP2 lenses, Sony Primes, Angenieux zooms.

The way they handle letting students use gear is you must become "certified" on the equipment to be able to check it out and even then a teacher must approve the project. Certification is a one day 4 hour hands on training with the one camera going through handling, settings, shooting, post, etc. It's a basic training but it helps a little. The higher end gear is reserved for those working on thesis films or a film produced by a senior. This keeps the broken high end stuff to a minimum. Basically when you start as a freshmen you get the lower end gear, and as the years go on you move up to the better higher end gear.

Hope this helps.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

Great info, Matt...thanks for your input! I'm considering doing some kind of certification, but trying to figure out how to manage the process.

 

[Paul Ellington]

I'm curious to find out how different film schools deal with student access to equipment. We are rapidly building up our inventory of equipment, and have started to acquire some pretty expensive and often delicate gear. In the past, our policy has been to let students check out equipment whenever they want, use it as much as possible, and hope that we have done a good job of teaching them how to take care of it. If something gets damaged, we pay for the repairs and write it off to "educational collateral damage".

That policy works fine with C-stands, dollies and light kits, but when it comes to things like expensive lenses, cameras, and audio equipment, I'm struggling with where to draw the line between student access and protecting the gear. In general, our students take pretty good care of gear, but sometimes they are careless, sloppy or negligent. I hate to limit access to equipment just because I'm afraid something might happen to it. The reason we have the gear in the first place is to let students get familiar with real industry equipment so that they will be more prepared when they move into the job market. At the same time, if a lens gets damaged by one student who was careless, then the rest of our students are deprived of its use until it's repaired...not to mention the high repair costs. And when it comes to the really expensive stuff, we usually only have one of whatever it is, so that magnifies the problem.

Budgets are tight in higher education these days (and everywhere else), and we have to work very hard to fundraise the dollars used to buy quality equipment. As a private college, all of our money comes from tuition and donors...no state or federal revenue. Putting that equipment at risk is very hard when you know how much effort it took to get that gear in the first place.

I'm interested to hear the thoughts of the RED community on this subject. Please let me know how your school (whether you teach or were a student) handles equipment access.

A big issues, certainly at NYU, is the new models that come out a year later making the cameras bought a year earlier obsolete or unwanted. RED, in my opinion addressed this beautifully which is why so many people are over the moon, wait before I get yelled at, one of the many reasons we are over the moon. Always upgradeable and now with unlimited expansion options, I honestly don't think the other guys will be able to keep up for long.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Great info, Matt...thanks for your input! I'm considering doing some kind of certification, but trying to figure out how to manage the process.

Hey Tom,
The way they do it is they schedule 4 certifications per camera per year and have signups a month in advance. Once the signup sheet hits 20, the class is closed. That gives you 4 chances throughout the year to take the certification. Then if your a senior, you already can check out the gear so no certification is needed.

I personally think if you have a professor sign off on equipment this would reduce problems a lot. It would make a professor have to look over the students project, equipment requirements, and also know whether they are capable with the selected gear before allowing them to check it out (and they must be certified with the specified camera). I know we would have much more broken gear if we didn't have this process.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Columbia College Hollywood has an assortment of camera's and gear. Red One MX, Sony F3, Sony EX3's, Panasonic HPX, Arri SR3,2x SR2, SR1, Arri 435, plenty of support accessories, arri ff's, Oconnor 2060 tripods, Zeiss CP2 lenses, Sony Primes, Angenieux zooms.

The way they handle letting students use gear is you must become "certified" on the equipment to be able to check it out and even then a teacher must approve the project. Certification is a one day 4 hour hands on training with the one camera going through handling, settings, shooting, post, etc. It's a basic training but it helps a little. The higher end gear is reserved for those working on thesis films or a film produced by a senior. This keeps the broken high end stuff to a minimum. Basically when you start as a freshmen you get the lower end gear, and as the years go on you move up to the better higher end gear.

Hope this helps.

This is one of the better policies in my opinion. I think film students should have access to high end gear - just not right away without any intense training/certification. Just like in the real world, there's a price to pay for using high end gear, the same rule can apply in film school, except it's not money but rather time invested in learning it properly. Sometimes damaged gear is simply a matter of not knowing how to correctly use it, not just plain negligence. So, by certifying students, and perhaps assigning the high end gear to the upperclassmen, those who are doing practicums and such, probably does help out with equipment maintenance. Right now is such an amazing time to be teaching this stuff because you have cameras like the AF100, GH2, 5D, 7D, etc that are good primer cameras and get students thinking about lenses, light, composition, etc in a cinematic fashion, much better than say a 1/3" fixed lens camcorder (although that has its own possibilities). Although I am glad I was able to learn on film cameras, I do think the time is nearing when it won't make much financial sense for schools to teach that gear and process. It's a shame because there is a lot of value in it for the student, but reality is they are going to move to completely digital as time goes on.

 

[Matt Ryan]

This is one of the better policies in my opinion. I think film students should have access to high end gear - just not right away without any intense training/certification. Just like in the real world, there's a price to pay for using high end gear, the same rule can apply in film school, except it's not money but rather time invested in learning it properly. Sometimes damaged gear is simply a matter of not knowing how to correctly use it, not just plain negligence. So, by certifying students, and perhaps assigning the high end gear to the upperclassmen, those who are doing practicums and such, probably does help out with equipment maintenance. Right now is such an amazing time to be teaching this stuff because you have cameras like the AF100, GH2, 5D, 7D, etc that are good primer cameras and get students thinking about lenses, light, composition, etc in a cinematic fashion, much better than say a 1/3" fixed lens camcorder (although that has its own possibilities). Although I am glad I was able to learn on film cameras, I do think the time is nearing when it won't make much financial sense for schools to teach that gear and process. It's a shame because there is a lot of value in it for the student, but reality is they are going to move to completely digital as time goes on.

Agreed, personally I didn't mind the policy because if the school wouldn't let us use the gear, if we had the funds we would rent outside. If not we would make it work with whatever we could get. I think this policy also makes you more creative....

Gear will always be broken or mishandled, but if you can reduce or limit the negligent hands it's going into then its a successful program.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Gear will always be broken or mishandled, but if you can reduce or limit the negligent hands it's going into then its a successful program.

Ain't that the truth. Happens to the best of us. We've probably all dropped (or nearly dropped) a glass filter at some point.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Ain't that the truth. Happens to the best of us. We've probably all dropped (or nearly dropped) a glass filter at some point.

hahaha so true.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Students can get rental insurance for about $500 a year. Compared to $10,000+ per year in tuition it's not that bad... tell them this is their textbook fee. Or surely you can get a bulk rate for insurance. I wouldn't imagine having nice gear without a healthy insurance policy on all of it.

Maybe only make it required for the high-end gear. $20k lenses etc. Then they can choose if they want to use the best gear or not.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

I wouldn't imagine having nice gear without a healthy insurance policy on all of it.

Gavin, we do have all of our gear fully insured for loss, damage or theft, but the deductible is $500 (steep for a student to pay in the event of a loss). And frankly, for me, the bigger issue is loss of the use of the gear during the repair period.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

Although I am glad I was able to learn on film cameras, I do think the time is nearing when it won't make much financial sense for schools to teach that gear and process. It's a shame because there is a lot of value in it for the student, but reality is they are going to move to completely digital as time goes on.

Steve, we are strictly digital at this point, partly because of the costs of shooting film, but also the post workflow and the immediacy of digital. Teaching with DSLRs is a great way to learn about shot composition, DOF, exposure and lenses, but it only gets you so far...we are trying to turn out "employment-ready" students and they need to have more than just DSLR experience to get the more desirable internships and jobs. Just trying to figure out the best tactics to get them that high-end experience within the realities of our annual equipment budget and wear and tear of daily use.

 

[Michael Panfeld]

Tom: a few points. First, you should be able to obtain a loss of use rider that would cover you renting something on an interim basis while the gear is being repaired.

Second, I agree with everyone's suggestion on training/certification before access to gear.

Third, have you considered partnering with local rental houses to offer student discounts on gear that you cannot carry yourself?

Finally, there was an article in the last year or two, perhaps in the NYTimes, that talked about Film Schools eliminating gear entirely or making students buy insurance. The issue was a series of incidents were film students were injured or killed and the resulting liability lawsuits against the school. (i remember the article mentioning a Florida film school student getting eectrocuted because he grabbed a C-stand that had a light with a short). Something to think about.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Gavin, we do have all of our gear fully insured for loss, damage or theft, but the deductible is $500 (steep for a student to pay in the event of a loss). And frankly, for me, the bigger issue is loss of the use of the gear during the repair period.

Our deductible was $1000, and it has never been an issue. Although if you can afford $30,000 in tuition a year...Each student pays a "lab and insurance fee" of $50 a quarter to pay the insurance policy ($1,000,000). The school also has a deal with Abel Cine and Birns and Sawyer who lends gear to the school all the time for use...

Insurance also rents you replacement gear in the event of loss or damage until it is replaced.

 

[Paul Ellington]

Tom: a few points. First, you should be able to obtain a loss of use rider that would cover you renting something on an interim basis while the gear is being repaired.

Second, I agree with everyone's suggestion on training/certification before access to gear.

Third, have you considered partnering with local rental houses to offer student discounts on gear that you cannot carry yourself?

Finally, there was an article in the last year or two, perhaps in the NYTimes, that talked about Film Schools eliminating gear entirely or making students buy insurance. The issue was a series of incidents were film students were injured or killed and the resulting liability lawsuits against the school. (i remember the article mentioning a Florida film school student getting eectrocuted because he grabbed a C-stand that had a light with a short). Something to think about.

We do both at NYU GRAD. We have our own, through CSI which covers us up to 6K with a 100 deductible at which point the school's insurance kicks in.