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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The great Insurance Scam

Hey Mark, I live in a small town. Say I do a little of both (once I get my Scarlet/Epic), meaning rental isn't the main thrust, or the focus, but a nice way to keep the camera working and bring in a little revenue. If they are "100% different" how easy is it to get a rider for like a 2 week period 3-4x a year? i.e. I have a motorcycle that sat in the shed on basic coverage, but when I went on a ride, I could call up my agent and say "Hey, put me on full coverage for the next 2 weeks" They'd adjust my policy and I'd pay $50 more that month, but it was pretty seamless.
 
I found most insurance companies are a SCAM and prefer to self-insure and take (sometimes draconian) security measures, even if it means GPS tracking device, 100% security deposit, knowing the person and where he/she lives, renting with me included, hireing a body guard with the camera, taking cavet on his/her mother's house as security,...etc...or decline the deal. I've got better things to do in life than suing an insurance company...been there done that (and won, but what a waste of time).
 
First of all i'd like to say I'm pretty stoked about calling Mark's agent. I'm looking forward to the conversation. So a little more about my conversation with my broker and some of what I was told.

1. If you drop your camera off a cliff while climbing mountain trying to get a shot, your camera is covered.
2. If its stolen from your place of business, its covered.
3. If its stolen from your car (hidden or not) its covered but your deductible goes up.
4. If you send your camera in for servicing, and the service technician steals it, its covered.
5. If you send yur camera out with a tech or assistant and its stolen, its covered.
6. if in transport on a production, the van is stolen its covered
7. If its left overnight on a secure set and its stolen its covered.
8. If you rent it or loan it and that person steals it it is not covered.
9. If your buddy of 25 yrs borrows it and leaves the country never to return, Not covered.
 
You need real renters coverage...you only get what you pay for.
Sounds like your coverage is for "rented" gear...which is the gear you rent. You need a specific policy for a rental house.
Rented gear coverage would exclude the things you mention, which makes sense if you think thru it.

My broker:

Penny Starkey, CIC
McInnis Tyner, Inc.
Direct 225-215-4952
Main 225-926-0860
 
Thanks Greg I'll look into it and report back some time on Monday. I am really glad I posted this.

I gotta hit the sack, early call tomorrow.

Cheers

Greg M said:
You need real renters coverage...you only get what you pay for.

My broker:

Penny Starkey, CIC
McInnis Tyner, Inc.
Direct 225-215-4952
Main 225-926-0860
Click to expand...
 
Who is your broker?

R. Gonzales said:
First of all i'd like to say I'm pretty stoked about calling Mark's agent. I'm looking forward to the conversation. So a little more about my conversation with my broker and some of what I was told.

1. If you drop your camera off a cliff while climbing mountain trying to get a shot, your camera is covered.
2. If its stolen from your place of business, its covered.
3. If its stolen from your car (hidden or not) its covered but your deductible goes up.
4. If you send your camera in for servicing, and the service technician steals it, its covered.
5. If you send yur camera out with a tech or assistant and its stolen, its covered.
6. if in transport on a production, the van is stolen its covered
7. If its left overnight on a secure set and its stolen its covered.
8. If you rent it or loan it and that person steals it it is not covered.
9. If your buddy of 25 yrs borrows it and leaves the country never to return, Not covered.
Click to expand...
 
Rental 'in' and rental 'out' insurance are very different things, and the cost varies considerably for exactly the reasons you describe - it involves you giving your equipment to people you don't really know and hoping it comes back. This is why it costs a lot more, and is best sought from specialist insurers. In the UK, almost everyone I know uses a company called Allen Chaplain James because they are media specialists. They're even active in hire fraud prevention - and there's a LOT of this in the UK at the moment.

Hiring OUT is risky, and requires high premiums - as it should. Unfortunately, it's also not a cost factored into the hire charges of many small owner/operators, who then rail at the costs and berate 'greedy' insurers for ripping them off. Simple economics also dictate that smaller outfits pay more / camera for insurance, as theres usually a sliding scale for total sums insured.

Rather than blaming insurers, take the time to find one that understands your business and sets premiums accordingly. It should come as no surprise to anyone who knows how much fraud occurs in the film hire business that decent insurance is expensive - and nowadays will stop many people from renting out at all.
 
Being an owner operator and renting gear is a tough thing on two fronts.

1. It's turning over your stuff to some stranger.
2. Renting gear/rental business is not our primary business.

You have to be insured but my suggestion one option is to contact a local rental house and sub-rent a camera body through them and their insurance policies which are more expensive and geared toward rental.

What you loose is negligible.

What you gain is:
- peace of mind
-professionals check your gear in and out
-insured for proper rental

I got so tired of fielding calls and trying to work out packages and messing with this stuff that I just asked a rental house to act as an agent for those long and short term rentals.

Im just throwing this out there as a possible option for people where ever they might be. Personally, I don't want to go through all the crap of taking licences and checking names and handing over my stuff to someone I don't know.

The only other option is to really only rent go folks you know.

David
 
One other thing I feel needs to be said here... When you rent equipment out it's always best to collect a properly issued insurance certificate from the renting party. I think most people try to do this. You should do your due diligence and verify that the policy is good and see what it actually covers. ...If there is time. It can also be one more step toward verifying the legitimacy of your renter.

BUT.... You should always assume that they're handing you garbage. Don't ever rely on insurance coverage from anyone else to cover you. If you're not adequately covered, you're taking a leap of faith hoping that someone else's insurance will protect your interests. If in the event something does happen, and their insurance covers it, think of it as a bonus for you and your insurance provider.

Additionally, if you have a good insurance agent and good coverage, they will do the legwork for you when it comes to dealing with getting a claim paid, even if that involves dealing with a rental customer's insurance agency.

Good insurance does cost more. But it's not terribly expensive (most of the time).

Oh, and be sure you have good general liability coverage. $1M is minimum in most markets these days, $2M is even better. This is the insurance that protects YOU if and when YOU screw up.

Insurance can be created to cover almost anything, for a price. It's usually a matter of communicating your needs to your agent, who is hopefully willing to listen and work with you.
 
I support what David is saying. Just make sure you have a good written agreement where the rental company.
1. They should agree on providing replacement of the equipment if lost, stolen or damaged beyond repair.
2. Maintenance of the equipment.

David Battistella said:
Being an owner operator and renting gear is a tough thing on two fronts.

1. It's turning over your stuff to some stranger.
2. Renting gear/rental business is not our primary business.

You have to be insured but my suggestion one option is to contact a local rental house and sub-rent a camera body through them and their insurance policies which are more expensive and geared toward rental.

What you loose is negligible.

What you gain is:
- peace of mind
-professionals check your gear in and out
-insured for proper rental

I got so tired of fielding calls and trying to work out packages and messing with this stuff that I just asked a rental house to act as an agent for those long and short term rentals.

Im just throwing this out there as a possible option for people where ever they might be. Personally, I don't want to go through all the crap of taking licences and checking names and handing over my stuff to someone I don't know.

The only other option is to really only rent go folks you know.

David
Click to expand...
 
Generally insurances don't cover fraud, that's the issue here. The cover is probably available but premiums would rocket.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
One other thing I feel needs to be said here... When you rent equipment out it's always best to collect a properly issued insurance certificate from the renting party.
Click to expand...

Jeff, here in lies the dilemma, Joe Evil purchased proper insurance before the rental and had a certificate sent by the insurance company. He then stole the package. He also stole a bunch of Lenses from a rental house and they were not covered either.

Jeff Kilgroe said:
You should do your due diligence and verify that the policy is good and see what it actually covers. ...If there is time.
Click to expand...

Yes I would agree, especially if f there is a chance that the renter might walk with your stuff and both insurance policies won't cover the loss.


Jeff Kilgroe said:
It can also be one more step toward verifying the legitimacy of your renter.
Click to expand...

Sure it can but anyone can buy insurance. the cost of purchasing insurance is negligible compared to what you could gain with the stolen equipment. I've done some traveling and seen customs brokers pass cash to customs agents to ignore what we were bringing in.


Jeff Kilgroe said:
BUT.... You should always assume that they're handing you garbage. Don't ever rely on insurance coverage from anyone else to cover you. If you're not adequately covered, you're taking a leap of faith hoping that someone else's insurance will protect your interests. If in the event something does happen, and their insurance covers it, think of it as a bonus for you and your insurance provider.
Click to expand...

I can't argue with that Jeff.
 
Just wanted to say thank you for all the folks who have posted on this thread and pass along another "scam" run by the insurance companies that may be worth exploring as we all look at the fine print in our policies.

First, a bit of background. When we buy equipment, we buy for quality with the expectation that, if properly maintained and cared for, it will last for over 7 years. We have had great experience with much of our equipment - HD field monitors, tripods, heads, batteries, chargers, our sennheiser audio equipment, etc. - with long useful lifes.

Why is this important...? It may financially impact your claim if the policy is "cash value" v. "replacement value".

After reading this thread, ironically, our flood insurance policies are up for renewals tomorrow. When I called to make a payment, I asked the lady about some of the points brought up in this post. She started talking about the claims process and how the adjuster would come out, etc. Then it hit me...we had been sold a "cash value" policy.

Financially, for us...a cash value policy is a big waste of money because we would be forced to fight a depreciation argument with the adjuster unless we were willing to settle for pennies on the dollar. Again, we have well functioning equipment that is greatly cared for and maintained.

So Monday, we are calling the agent to price "replacement value" policies. Not everyone may be in this position, but I would expect that any "computer / or electronic" related equipment is going to have a 2 year useful life when it comes to payout on claims. It may be worth calculating the premium tradeoff for many of you.
 
Greg M said:
You need real renters coverage...you only get what you pay for.
Sounds like your coverage is for "rented" gear...which is the gear you rent. You need a specific policy for a rental house.
Rented gear coverage would exclude the things you mention, which makes sense if you think thru it.

My broker:

Penny Starkey, CIC
McInnis Tyner, Inc.
Direct 225-215-4952
Main 225-926-0860
Click to expand...

Upon Greg's recommendation I just wrote up a policy with Penny and she had extremely competitive rates, a wide variety of options and was great to work with. +1 for Penny. She even found me a policy in the price range I wanted which several other brokers said they couldn't find or didn't exist.

As to the topic at hand about renting vs personal use. My experience from numerous quotes is that pure usage was about $400-$1200 for $25k coverage. And w/ coverage for conversion (fraud) and rental to others you are looking at 2x - 3x that. Hope that's helpful!
 
Thanks Will
 
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