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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

An open letter to Red User about the Zacuto Tests

+1 on Toya. If Crononweth is busy...

Anyone from LitIron or OH free?
 
If David Mullen wants to do it and is available, I believe he has earned the chance to turn it down with his 5,000+posts. All of which have been hugely helpful to Redusers as well as the broader online film community. Not to mention, his art is captivating and always well executed. It's David's general demeanor and calmness that I admire most. That's something us Redusers could use a little more of, and something I think the Zacuto tests and Red would benefit from. I can think of no better representative of Reduser then Mr. Mullen. Of course, he has also earned the right to say no too, but something tells me he might think this is fun :)

Right behind him would be Toia in my book. That guy has shared many a valuable test and generally makes the Red cameras and their workflow shine. Maybe a Mullen/Toia combo could be cool?
 
Clint Lealos said:
Right behind him would be Toia in my book. That guy has shared many a valuable test and generally makes the Red cameras and their workflow shine. Maybe a Mullen/Toia combo could be cool?
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That is a great idea.
 
Regardless, everyone that has been mentioned so far is qualified in my opinion. I'd love to see what any of them brought to the table.

I do see the artistic but level approach David Mullen provides to all cameras as a benefit. The other candidates posses these attributes, surely, but I have repeatedly appreciated his matter of fact way of communicating.

+1 to a Mullen/Toia combo. That would be very interesting!

Looking forward to it. :)
 
Scott Lynch said:
As many of you know Zacuto produces a digital camera comparison every year. We’re putting together our next test and we’ll be including the Epic as many of you asked us to do last year. We want the Epic to look it’s very best so we are asking the Red community to nominate the best RED cinematographer and or RED technician to represent the very best Red has to offer and make your camera look the best it possibly can.

The testing this year will be a lot different then the shootouts we’ve done in the past. Our administrator Bruce Logan, ASC is designing a practical scene in studio on a controlled set where we will try to emulate a real apartment location. We’ll have a blown out window, dark shadow areas, skin tone etc. The idea is that every Cinematographer will be allowed to adjust the lighting levels, use filters, pick lenses, change camera settings, in your case use HDRX if you want to and use a custom post workflow with color grading in order to create the best looking image out of their camera. We’ll be testing all of the cameras during the week of February 20-24th in Chicago.

Zacuto will be documenting the different approaches that each Cinematographer takes with their camera and post workflow and this will be turned into episodes of our Revenge of the Great Camera Shootout 2012 documentary series. We will also be taking all of the final footage from all of the cameras tested and showing it in a series of blind screenings at NAB and throughout the world, which will also be included as commentary in our final documentary as we have done in the past. Furthermore, most of the camera companies involved are sending a representative to be on set and also be interviewed as to what is unique about their camera, technology and workflow and this invitation is also open.

We want to be transparent with the testing process, so we are hoping that the community can give us your recommendations as to the best people to represent the Epic. The key here to remember is that your representative will have complete control to light, shoot and color grade. No one will hamper him/her to achieve their best look for the scene.

Thanks,
Steve
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Well, this will be entertaining, but it won't really be a camera test, will it? I mean, really, if all that is variable, then it's all about the cinematographers' skill and personal aesthetics.

Bruce is great, and he knows a lot about cinematography; I'm sure he'll design an interesting and challenging setting. But with those rules, it won't really be a camera shootout at all. It'll be a cinematographers' shootout - more like the cooking contest shows on cable than a camera test. But I'll watch it. Like I said, it'll be entertaining. And if any of the people mentioned here are involved, I'll learn a lot too!
 
This is a no brainer. David Mullen pretty much only one who posts regularly...who shoots features.
And he shot one of the first early Epic features.
 
David Battistella said:
Mark Toia

Because I see him consistently bitch slap people with footage.
I also trust him to take it through post properly.

David
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Agreed, Mullen or Toia. Both make beautiful images and Toia in particular isn't afraid to voice his opinions no matter the consequence. Mullen may edge him out though, because he's like a human cinematography manual.
 
What? No one wants me to do it?

lol

Seriously, Mullen/Toia sounds great.

We should mention Gunleik, Ryan Walters, and a Rossi/Hutson team.

Here is what I expect to discover: Modern cameras kick ass, but there remains room for improvement.

I also expect to discover that I'm really not interested in 2K cameras.

As described, I also expect to get a good insight into how some top notch cinematographers approach this sort of thing.

I would like it if instead of inviting a "representative" from manufacturers, that you invite their engineering teams to submit tests and procedures.
 
Remember that most Red footage that doesn't look right isn't because of the cinematographer, it's because of incorrect post production by people who assume they know what to do.

Toia is great because he understands both sides.

No matter what happens, I suggest original R3Ds and the final grade are sent to Red to bless. If Red says mistakes were made in post, they can be corrected before evaluation.

This is what annoys me the most, when someone captures the HD-SDI signal or something and says they have "tested" Red.

In fact, this should probably be standard practice for all the cameras. I'm sure I could do a great job grading C300 footage, but since I don't know what the camera is fully capable of I could believe I had hit the limit simply by going down the wrong path...

These tests need to be beyond criticism or they should be cast aside completely.
 
jimhare said:
Remember that most Red footage that doesn't look right isn't because of the cinematographer, it's because of incorrect post production by people who assume they know what to do.

Toia is great because he understands both sides.
Click to expand...

I agree - since this is a camera test, the lights and lenses should probably be kept the same between cameras. There shouldn't be much need to change that. It'll be the post that is the most important. But still, people not exposing the image right on set can cause quite a lot of damage.

jimhare said:
This is what annoys me the most, when someone captures the HD-SDI signal or something and says they have "tested" Red.
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Or the all-too-common 'export to a lower bit-depth format from RedCine-X without properly processing the image, throwing away most of the image information and then bringing out all the noise by trying to recover in a grading app' approach...
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
...

Here is what I expect to discover: Modern cameras kick ass...

As described, I also expect to get a good insight into how some top notch cinematographers approach this sort of thing.
Click to expand...


I actually think getting to see how great cinematographers approach the same problem will be the best part of this. Modern cameras do kick ass. Epic more than most. But great cinematographers still matter even more than cameras.

To that end, I'd throw a couple of other names on the table: John Schwartzman ASC, Dariusz Wolski, and Jeff Cronenweth, ASC. (just in case David Mullen is busy that week. :-)
 
D Fuller said:
I actually think getting to see how great cinematographers approach the same problem will be the best part of this. Modern cameras do kick ass. Epic more than most. But great cinematographers still matter even more than cameras.

To that end, I'd throw a couple of other names on the table: John Schwartzman ASC, Dariusz Wolski, and Jeff Cronenweth, ASC. (just in case David Mullen is busy that week. :-)
Click to expand...

Agreed.

The Red MX and Epic have already proven themselves, we already know that ALL the cameras kick ass...I'm more excited to see each of the DP's approach the scene

-Dane
 
All mentioned deserve this task. But my vote tends to go to Cronenweth because I'm a fan of his work (and have limited knowledge of all the other's feature work excluding David Mullen). If he is not available, David Mullen, Gunleik and Toia would make me happy with the test. Would be good if Graeme and Stuart where there, too, to prevent any "shenanigans" :)
 
Nate or Travis - or any one of those guys who has been around RED forever, and go out with the cameras all the time to support big productions...bring in the guys who have seen it all, since the beginning....

though Toia is a great advocate for this camera and brings a great sense of humor and goodwill to his work - he'd be a good ambassador.
 
Don't forget, this isn't about who is your favorite cinematographer. The cameras will all be doing the same setups, right?

I would choose someone who has the most experience with Red post-production but also happens to know the exact right camera settings to use for the shot given.
 
Don't forget Gunleik!! He is super valuable to this forum and RED in general, shoots amazing stuff and knows his technical amazingly well. Just brows through his "So what can you do with Epic" post and you'll see what I mean.
 
run two (or more) tests concurrently.

One set would be a standardized test, and the other one system optimized by a DP.
 
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