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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NLE Needed

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Arnold F.

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I don't know that I wish to have a real discussion here (although folks may certainly do so), but I need assistance in choosing between FCP7 or Premiere for working with RED, 5DM2 and HVX footage. If someone might point me to a primer, comparison or discussion someplace online or, if they have an extra moment to PM me with some advice it would be most appreciated.

Thank you!
 
Over all, I prefer Avid for editorial, but definitely Premiere over FCP7. Like Gavin said, native support, real time 4K (if you have the system to handle it), and tons of flexibility in regards to the rest of the CS suite (such as working with After Effects or Photoshop), there isn't a comparison.

EDIT: Also, considering the age of FCP7 and how unlikely it seems that Apple will revert the toolset back towards the professional market, you're just future proofing by going with Premiere.
 
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In a way it hurts me to say this because I love FCP7 and I'm learning to love FCPX, but Premiere seems to be the way to go as long as u have a newer computer. From what everyone says, and personally seeing it in AE, the native R3D support is excellent.
 
Editing Scarlet/Epic R3Ds, 5Dmk2, and HVX footage in FCP7 will require transcoding for both R3D (very slow without a redrocket) and 5Dmk2, taking hours or possibly days/weeks to just get the footage into your project and approximately doubling your storage requirements while introducing generational compression losses and making it harder to take full advantage of the RAW R3D data. The HVX footage will edit natively in FCP7 but might still require transcoding to get realtime playback and effects into the same timeline formats as the R3D and 5Dmk2 footage.

Premiere on the other hand will load all of those camera original files natively and work with them immediately on the same timeline. You will have to set your playback resolution appropriately for your system for 4k R3D's to play real time. Most likely if you dont have a red rocket or 8+ fast cores, you'll have to get used to editing with your R3Ds in 1/4 or 1/8 res for realtime playback, which usually isnt noticeable until you start playing back in full screen or on an external reference monitor. Also the GPU capabilities of Premiere for real time effects is pretty useful.

FCP7 is just so old and poorly optimized and has such poor native camera format support it would be very difficult to recommend it to anyone for any reason at this point. It also seems to often have terrible gamma or black/white clip issues with DSLR footage, which I can't stand.
 
Premier all the way!!! We are just amazed at how premier and AE handle the R3D files. Other than having to go to 1/4 resolution (which is essentially 1080) they are as easy to work with as footage from our 5D Mark II.
 
Les C. said:
FCP7's future is pretty much dead since Apple introduced the 64 bit version of Final Cut Express as the FCP X (according to fxGuide). They may also be abandoning the MacPro from what I've heard.
Click to expand...

I would bet on it. The post lab I work in hasn't been able to get any answer on updated Mac Pros, though supposedly there will be a line with Ivy Bridge processors. I wouldn't expect it to last more than one or two minor revisions. There just isn't a purpose for Apple to cater to the high end market when the vast majority of their money comes from iOS devices and lower end computers.

Hell, that's why I built a Hackintosh.
 
Les C. said:
This excellent tutorial should help you decide.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?66182-Tutorials-for-Newcomers-to-Premiere-Pro

FCP7's future is pretty much dead since Apple introduced the 64 bit version of Final Cut Express as the FCP X (according to fxGuide). They may also be abandoning the MacPro from what I've heard.
Click to expand...

With all do respect, obviously you haven't given FCPX a fair chance. If you had you would see that it is a powerful professional editor, that just happens to be missing a couple of vital features. Once it gets multi cam and support for native editing of R3D, and other formats, it will be amazing. Also there are plans for a Mac Pro refresh in the future. There are hints to it hidden in the code of Lion.
 
Robert L. Mickles said:
With all do respect, obviously you haven't given FCPX a fair chance. If you had you would see that it is a powerful professional editor, that just happens to be missing a couple of vital features. Once it gets multi cam and support for native editing of R3D, and other formats, it will be amazing. Also there are plans for a Mac Pro refresh in the future. There are hints to it hidden in the code of Lion.
Click to expand...

But I don't think you should have to give software a chance when the maker seems disinterested in listening to the market. There's a reason people flipped out over the missing features; some of them were essential for finishing work and Apple seemed disinterested in solving the issue immediately, telling us our tools were outdated. It takes time to change an industry, you can't just drop software on the market and expect everyone to migrate over when there will be other tools (like Avid and Premiere) that work in the manner most editors are used to.

All I'm saying is that Apple wanted to force a change that wasn't really needed, and I don't need to wait for them to add .R3D support and multicam when I already have other options built into my workflows.
 
Robert L. Mickles said:
With all do respect, obviously you haven't given FCPX a fair chance. If you had you would see that it is a powerful professional editor, that just happens to be missing a couple of vital features. Once it gets multi cam and support for native editing of R3D, and other formats, it will be amazing. Also there are plans for a Mac Pro refresh in the future. There are hints to it hidden in the code of Lion.
Click to expand...

Why hasn't there been any mention of RED's own REDCINE-X PRO in this thread ? I've found it to be extremely powerful on the test .R3D files I've experimented with. AND (in the scheme of other NLE suites), REDCINE-X is fairly easy to use. AND IT'S FREE !!! AND IT GETS BETTER WITH EACH UPDATE (and the updates come relatively frequently). No, I'm not trying to be a fan-person here (I'd say 'fanboy,' but I'm probably older than everyone else on this thread put together ... somehow, 'fan-fossil' just doesn't have the right ring to it ...)

Just saying' ... REDCINE-X PRO + even a very lightweight NLE package could do the trick for most of what you will want to do. On those extremely rare instances (e.g., needing a traveling mask, etc. -- Resolve ?) -- get someone else to do it on their system.

I'm using Final Cut 7, Final Cut X, Premier 5.5.2, and AE. Once I get SO # 51515 (if I can actually pay for it), REDCINE-X + Final Cut X will probably be the way I go for most of what I'll be doing. Your mileage may vary & you may need a $250K editing suite/bay. Yes, I'd like Light Iron to do my finishing. Yes, I'd like to have the skills to be able to do what Light Iron can do. But I think REDCINE-X will give all of us a big head start ....

My 2¢,
Serge
SO# 51515 (maybe)
 
Eric J Robbins said:
But I don't think you should have to give software a chance when the maker seems disinterested in listening to the market. There's a reason people flipped out over the missing features; some of them were essential for finishing work and Apple seemed disinterested in solving the issue immediately, telling us our tools were outdated. It takes time to change an industry, you can't just drop software on the market and expect everyone to migrate over when there will be other tools (like Avid and Premiere) that work in the manner most editors are used to.

All I'm saying is that Apple wanted to force a change that wasn't really needed, and I don't need to wait for them to add .R3D support and multicam when I already have other options built into my workflows.
Click to expand...

Oh of course you already have other options, we all do. I just see FCPX as another option. When and if it gets the two features that I mentioned in my previous post, then it will likely be my number one choice. As I'm sure once it gets everything that it lacks it will be a great choice for as many people as FCP7 was. Not one tool is perfect for every Job. From here on out I'll use Premiere for RED projects, but everything else I will likely still use FCP7 or FCPX. I Know Avid, FCP7, FCPX, and Premiere all pretty well, and I'll use them where necessary. Right now the only reason I'll use Avid is if someone I'm collaborating with is using it, therefore I will need to use it. But all I'm saying is if you have a project where you feel that you can try out FCPX, I recommend it. I think that there is a lot to like about it, even though it is lacking a few things.
 
+1000 Premier.

FCP 7 ( a great NLE ) is dying a no update, FCP X ( a underdeveloped NLE ) is definitely not ready for prime time. Avid ( bloated software & still not resolution independent ! ) is in financial trouble & laying off staff, I wonder why. Please don't even mention Vegas !

Who is left ?
 
Hi guys, many professionals consider vegas pro a toy since its not an "industry standard" - i guess if you're going to work for a post house you need to know Avid or Final Cut or lastly premiere.

But if you're a one man show for the most part i do suggest vegas (with the right GPU) and of course Premiere Pro

I have edited many music videos, corporates and films in vegas pro. I also had PPRO since version 5.1

As a standalone editor you can get lots of work done in either/or ....as far as interacting with other apps like photoshop and AE, nothing beats the Adobe Suite. The mercury playback engine is very sweet.

A good investment in a GPU will help ALOT. Good luck
 
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