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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Lab 36 - Red One MX with Zeiss CP.2's

Julian Fort said:
Thanks for posting this. I enjoyed watching it. I really dug the music by the way. Such a nice change from the usual terribly over dramatic stuff that often accompanies these type of posts. Really liked the shot where your actor walked into focus. The extreme CU that starts on his forehand I thought was a little soft, but maybe that was intended. The location looks great. Looks like you guys had fun.
Click to expand...

Thanks for checking it out Julian.

The forehead shot was so quickly executed. We did a couple takes so I'm sure one is useable. This was on the last day at around hour 13 and we were already supposed to be out of the building so i stood on a bench with the litepanel and used my finger to rotate the dimmer on the panel to give the flicker look and we just rolled.

Our editor just grabbed a few clips and threw them on an hour before class so we had something to show. These aren't necessarily the best takes although I wish she had gone through and picked out the best shots (Oh Well).

Looking back now that the shoot is over it was a lot of fun.

Thanks Julian!
 
As someone who recently finished school and looking for professional work I'd greatly appreciate comments or feedback from the seasoned professionals who belong to this forum. It would mean a lot to me as Reduser has been a great source of wisdom, knowledge, and inspiration for me over the past almost 4 years.
 
Looks really great! The Cp.2s look great although, I do agree with you that the RED lenses are sharper. The Cp.2s are the same optics as the still lenses, just rehoused. So of course almost any true cine lens is going to be sharper but the CP2s are still pretty damn good.
 
Robert L. Mickles said:
Looks really great! The Cp.2s look great although, I do agree with you that the RED lenses are sharper. The Cp.2s are the same optics as the still lenses, just rehoused. So of course almost any true cine lens is going to be sharper but the CP2s are still pretty damn good.
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Hey Robert,
Thanks for checking it out. For sure the Red lenses are sharper and have consistent color matching between lenses. I don't want to sound like I hate the CP.2's cause I will use whatever glass I can to get the job done. On this one the CP.2's are what the school includes with the Red and with no budget we just used them. I didn't dislike them that much even though it sounds like it. I just prefer the sharpness and feel of the red lenses.

Thanks for taking the time to check out the thread!
 
Matt Ryan said:
Hey Robert,
Thanks for checking it out. For sure the Red lenses are sharper and have consistent color matching between lenses. I don't want to sound like I hate the CP.2's cause I will use whatever glass I can to get the job done. On this one the CP.2's are what the school includes with the Red and with no budget we just used them. I didn't dislike them that much even though it sounds like it. I just prefer the sharpness and feel of the red lenses.

Thanks for taking the time to check out the thread!
Click to expand...

Wow, you're school actually has a RED ONE MX? When I went to school all we had was some HVX200's and some bigger Panasonic 2/3in cameras that shot 24P. I ended up using my own gear all of the time (an XL2 then a EX1). This was back in 2009, and it seems like more and more schools are getting RED ONEs now. It's pretty awesome for those who are going to those schools to have access to gear like that.
 
Robert L. Mickles said:
Wow, you're school actually has a RED ONE MX? When I went to school all we had was some HVX200's and some bigger Panasonic 2/3in cameras that shot 24P. I ended up using my own gear all of the time (an XL2 then a EX1). This was back in 2009, and it seems like more and more schools are getting RED ONEs now. It's pretty awesome for those who are going to those schools to have access to gear like that.
Click to expand...

Yeah the school just got the package a year ago after some other of the bigger film schools that this one competes with purchased them. Up until then we either shot 16mm or pmw-ex1, hvx200, or dvx100. The school also recently purchased an Sony F3 a month before the Scarlet release hahaha. They are kicking themselves now.

My first 3 years we would rent the Red for our shoots, but yes it is awesome going to a school who owns their own package. And like you I used to own a JVC HD200 with a p+s technik mini35+,and nikon primes that we used on most shoots where we couldn't afford the Red. Im still kicking myself for spending $9,000+ for the Mini35 adapter and $5,500 for the camera and another $5,000 for rehoused Nikons hahaha. But oh well! Wish I was smart enough to spend it on a Red system back then.
 
..it's pretty cool looking..reminds alot of one of those mysterious/creepy intros to X-Files episode.
But kind of hard to evaluate cinematography devoid of a edited story and completed cut.
Please post the finished film when it's done..and them you're sure to get more feedback.

The lead actor has a great presence about him..expressive face..good wardrobe.
The best shot is that dolly out from him standing in the door way. It really connects
us into him and his pov.
 
Hi Matt,

Thanks for posting, looks like a fun project. It is very difficult to give feed back on dailies as a shot that looks like it might not work will work perfectly when cut together. So here is some general feedback of stuff that most likely will happen anyway, and some advice on how to take the feedback that you do get. First of all I think you have some nice shoots here, good job.

Sound is as important as image, can work on a subconscious level, and makes interesting and new meaning in the space between the sound and the image. One obvious thing to do is change the sound of the track when the man takes off his headphones (this falls under what I am sure is going to happen when you edit and mix.) The second shoot I would have used a dolly or a steadicam, but depending on what happens next hand held might of been the perfect choice after all. Plus the quick shooting schedule also sometime dictates head held.

One mistake (not saying you) beginning film makers make is spending too much time worrying about making the perfect image, and not enough time on the story and getting good performances from actors. By all means, why not shoot great images? But a beautiful shot film with bad acting and poor pacing is a waste of time. I will put up with average shooting if the story is good and the performances believable or stylized in a appropriate manner. When I started out I did not know how to talk to actors and sometimes got wooden performances. So I worked on it. It isn't hard, just a skill that needs to be developed. There are some good books on this. Best of all working on story structure and honing directing actors doesn't cost anything! The most important lesson I learned is good directing is good casting. With some actors I just stay out of the way and give them a creative space to make me look good. By the way, I am not saying that you are not great at directing actors or that the performances aren't equally good, they look fine without sound at least, just an area that is too often neglected by too many.

I have done screenings of two of my feature length documentaries for feedback. Some feedback is very useful, and especially if multi people make the same comment, I take that feedback very seriously. But there are always people who tell you how they would have made the film. This feedback is mostly useless and should be ignore ed. If they want to make that film, fine go make it, but is not the film that they just watched. What always surprises me is what seems very obvious to me, sometimes the audience falls to follow. So my next cut there is a bit more handholding, although I try never to dumb it down. So a good question is, where you able to follow the story?

Lastly be your own harshest critic in the edit room. It is easy to fall in love with your own work, but I always try to put myself in my audience's shoes. I am a harsh critic of others, it is only fair to be a harsh critic of my own work. This helps me get that pacing right. If I cut something out and watch it and don't miss it, then it doesn't need to be there. Too many films get the pacing wrong. Get the pacing right and every element of the film gets better.

Good luck with the film and your future. Nothing like making a film to really learn, I am sure your future will be bright. Look forward to the final product.

Thanks,

Brian Pascale
HIPTV LLC
 
Steve Das said:
..it's pretty cool looking..reminds alot of one of those mysterious/creepy intros to X-Files episode.
But kind of hard to evaluate cinematography devoid of a edited story and completed cut.
Please post the finished film when it's done..and them you're sure to get more feedback.

The lead actor has a great presence about him..expressive face..good wardrobe.
The best shot is that dolly out from him standing in the door way. It really connects
us into him and his pov.
Click to expand...

Thanks for checking it out Steve! I will post the final once it has made its festival rounds. Ill put a trailer up as soon as I get one so you get the real feel of the story. Thanks again!
 
Brian Pascale said:
Hi Matt,

Thanks for posting, looks like a fun project. It is very difficult to give feed back on dailies as a shot that looks like it might not work will work perfectly when cut together. So here is some general feedback of stuff that most likely will happen anyway, and some advice on how to take the feedback that you do get. First of all I think you have some nice shoots here, good job.

Sound is as important as image, can work on a subconscious level, and makes interesting and new meaning in the space between the sound and the image. One obvious thing to do is change the sound of the track when the man takes off his headphones (this falls under what I am sure is going to happen when you edit and mix.) The second shoot I would have used a dolly or a steadicam, but depending on what happens next hand held might of been the perfect choice after all. Plus the quick shooting schedule also sometime dictates head held.

One mistake (not saying you) beginning film makers make is spending too much time worrying about making the perfect image, and not enough time on the story and getting good performances from actors. By all means, why not shoot great images? But a beautiful shot film with bad acting and poor pacing is a waste of time. I will put up with average shooting if the story is good and the performances believable or stylized in a appropriate manner. When I started out I did not know how to talk to actors and sometimes got wooden performances. So I worked on it. It isn't hard, just a skill that needs to be developed. There are some good books on this. Best of all working on story structure and honing directing actors doesn't cost anything! The most important lesson I learned is good directing is good casting. With some actors I just stay out of the way and give them a creative space to make me look good. By the way, I am not saying that you are not great at directing actors or that the performances aren't equally good, they look fine without sound at least, just an area that is too often neglected by too many.

I have done screenings of two of my feature length documentaries for feedback. Some feedback is very useful, and especially if multi people make the same comment, I take that feedback very seriously. But there are always people who tell you how they would have made the film. This feedback is mostly useless and should be ignore ed. If they want to make that film, fine go make it, but is not the film that they just watched. What always surprises me is what seems very obvious to me, sometimes the audience falls to follow. So my next cut there is a bit more handholding, although I try never to dumb it down. So a good question is, where you able to follow the story?

Lastly be your own harshest critic in the edit room. It is easy to fall in love with your own work, but I always try to put myself in my audience's shoes. I am a harsh critic of others, it is only fair to be a harsh critic of my own work. This helps me get that pacing right. If I cut something out and watch it and don't miss it, then it doesn't need to be there. Too many films get the pacing wrong. Get the pacing right and every element of the film gets better.

Good luck with the film and your future. Nothing like making a film to really learn, I am sure your future will be bright. Look forward to the final product.

Thanks,

Brian Pascale
HIPTV LLC
Click to expand...

Hey Brian,
Thanks for checking out the post and giving some advice. I completely agree with you on every point. 4 years of film school implanted these concepts in my head. I've been lucky to work with some extremely talented people and have learned a lot from my mentors.

I realize these are just dialies but I wanted to get some feedback outside of my school and friends network, thus why I posted here. I am for sure my harshest critic and I never let anything go. My biggest lesson learned was taught to me by an ASC member. His words stick in my head on every shoot, "the audience will judge your work as a cinematographer by your worst shot." I make sure not to just roll a shot without making sure it's as good as possible given the limitations.

As for the sound, music, and edit, as well as Direction: on this project I have nothing to do with those aspects but I definitely agree with you. This is not the music that will be in the film, it was just used to make the video more interesting to watch instead of just an image for 15 minutes. We averaged about 5-6 takes per shot so we definitely have plenty to work with. On this shoot both actors are SAG, so they were pretty good performance wise. These were just a few clips the editor grabbed to screen for class and not the best shots or an indication of coverage.

But again Brian, I completely agree with you and your points are excellent advice. Thank you for taking the time to check out the thread! I appreciate it.

Thanks!
Matt
 
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