Shooting Stock Footage at 48 FPS

[Brian Iannone]

I plan on shooting a large amount of stock footage, and I've been researching what frame rate to shoot at. I would think that the "standard" is 24p, however I've noticed that most footage on sites such as iStock and Getty Images is sold at 30p. However, considering where frame rates will be going in the future, what is your opinion of shooting stock at 48p? I'm just trying to gather some ideas.

I know it all depends on the application, but if you were to shoot general-use stock footage to sell online (I plan on selling through my own site), what frame rate (and shutter angle if it's an atypical rate) would you shoot at?

 

[Phil Bates]

My first choice would be 30fps, second: 24fps.

48fps might be viable in the future, but we are not seeing enough demand, or potential demand, to switch.

Phil

 

[Bruce Allen]

How about just shoot 48fps at 270 degree shutter?

You can always just chop out every 2nd frame and have nice 144 degree 24fps footage as well...

And Phil - thanks for the Artbeats Dec discount

Bought some HD footage of gigantic explosions yesterday - fun stuff!

Now we have to beg you to discount 3D explosions next! Please

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Eli Jarra]

I've been shooting stock plates at 48 270/deg shutter for a while now. I agree with Phil there's no where near the demand for that right now but I hope to see that change in the future.

 

[paulherrin]

Ideally, for future-proofing and a range of uses, I'd shoot 5k/4k @ 48fps. I'd drop the framerate before the resolution at this point.

 

[Brian Iannone]

It sounds like 48p is still a ways off. So now, I suppose my question is 24p vs. 30p. What do you think of shooting 30p at a shutter speed of 1/72 second? That way, wouldn't it be "more compatible" with either 24p or 30p?

 

[Brian Iannone]

Ideally, for future-proofing and a range of uses, I'd shoot 5k/4k @ 48fps. I'd drop the framerate before the resolution at this point.

So, for example, if I were shooting on a Scarlet, you'd say that capturing a larger resolution is more important than shooting at a higher frame rate? Meaning, choose 4K at 24p instead of 3K at 48p?

That's what I would do, but I'm trying to understand if that's what you were suggesting also

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

My theory would be that 120fps open shutter would be the ideal framerate-agnostic format, you could use it to deliver 120fps, 60fps, 30fps, and 24fps at a variety of shutter speeds if you have a way of properly frame decimating and frame-blending in various combinations, which are pretty basic procedures.

Simply drop every other frame to get 60fps 180deg shutter material; blend two frames and drop two frames for 30fps 180deg shutter; blend two frames, drop three frames for 24fps 1/60th shutter, etc. This would also potentially give you a lower noise floor for frame-blended frames, giving maybe up to 1-2 stops more low end latitude for 1/60th or 1/30th sec shutter versions.

If I had an epic and shot stock footage I would definitely see if I could make this happen. And EPIC is the ideal camera for the job... 5k footage available in all the most common formats from 24-120fps, what more would you want to be able to deliver?

 

[paulherrin]

So, for example, if I were shooting on a Scarlet, you'd say that capturing a larger resolution is more important than shooting at a higher frame rate? Meaning, choose 4K at 24p instead of 3K at 48p?

That's what I would do, but I'm trying to understand if that's what you were suggesting also

in general, yes. the problem is there's not necessarily a catch-all for every situation... and that's okay. i wouldn't worry too much about a "standard" at this point - just shoot some really high quality footage, and see what different venues are accepting/requesting.

 

[Clark Dunbar]

although we've had several requests for 48fps and 60fps (as 'normal') - not much yet. So it's probably best to determine the best fps rate for the subject and style and shoot that.

 

[Brian Iannone]

Thanks everyone for the replies. You've all been extremely helpful! =D

 

[Zeb B]

My theory would be that 120fps open shutter would be the ideal framerate-agnostic format, you could use it to deliver 120fps, 60fps, 30fps, and 24fps at a variety of shutter speeds if you have a way of properly frame decimating and frame-blending in various combinations, which are pretty basic procedures.

Newbie questions here: What do you mean by "open shutter"? If footage is shot at 120fps at 1/240sec then would that not produce a choppy look when down sampled to 24fps since the shutter would still be at the acquisition 1/240th speed (not the preferred 1/48th)? I have never down-sampled to different formats as suggested above so have no experience in this.

Also, would you all suggest then to shoot in 4K HD format when shooting for down-sampled 1080 Stock? In Stock, is there really a need for 5K - thereby giving up the 120fps in the scalable 1080HD ratio?

 

[Clark Dunbar]

we get requests for full 4K, quad-HD and have started getting requests for 5K... and have a few projects that wished for 8k! so go BIG!

 

[Brian Iannone]

Newbie questions here: What do you mean by "open shutter"? If footage is shot at 120fps at 1/240sec then would that not produce a choppy look when down sampled to 24fps since the shutter would still be at the acquisition 1/240th speed (not the preferred 1/48th)? I have never down-sampled to different formats as suggested above so have no experience in this.

Also, would you all suggest then to shoot in 4K HD format when shooting for down-sampled 1080 Stock? In Stock, is there really a need for 5K - thereby giving up the 120fps in the scalable 1080HD ratio?

+1

I'd like to know what "open shutter" means also. I plan on shooting stock at QuadHD as it resizes proportionally to 1080p. Any opinions on this?

By the way everyone, I'm going to be shooting on a Scarlet. So for me, it's either 4K at 24p or 4K QHD at 30p.

 

[Phil Bates]

An open shutter would be 360 degrees, or full open. A frame rate of 120fps would have a 1/120th shutter speed. With no break in the exposure (like you would have if you were at 180 degrees or 1/240th shutter speed) the images can look smeary or blurry. It can be used as an effect, but mostly looks like too much motion blur.

I would shoot 180 degrees for everything if you can. I have cheated get more light in extreme cases, like using a shutter speed of 1/48th at 30fps, but that is rare.

I appreciate the idea of shooting a high frame rate and then deleting and/or blending frames to get the slower frame rate options. However, you lose the 180 degree shutter speed, and that is a deal killer for me. It's also a lot of data management, and I haven't seen that kind of effort worth the trouble.

That said, there are subjects that look equally good--or better--in slow motion. So I can see shooting landscapes like ocean waves at 60fps, then time-stretching them to match 48fps, 30fps or 24fps (frame-for-frame, no frame blending or frame removal). This idea also works well for time-lapse and slow motion effects. We are currently going through our library and time-stretching a lot of our 30fps footage to 24fps. (This technique preserves the 180 degree shutter speed.) Our customer base seems to be moving more toward TV and Film and most of these guys want ONLY 24fps. Not all editors are savvy on the benefits/procedure of time stretching, so we are really offering them a service.

Phil

 

[Brian Iannone]

We are currently going through our library and time-stretching a lot of our 30fps footage to 24fps. Our customer base seems to be moving more toward TV and Film and most of these guys want ONLY 24fps. Not all editors are savvy on the benefits/procedure of time stretching, so we are really offering them a service.

I think you may have answered this already, but, if you were to start over completely with your library, or if you were just starting out like me, would you have still shot at 30p or would you have done everything at 24p?

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

I appreciate the idea of shooting a high frame rate and then deleting and/or blending frames to get the slower frame rate options. However, you lose the 180 degree shutter speed, and that is a deal killer for me. It's also a lot of data management, and I haven't seen that kind of effort worth the trouble.

Well you don't lose the 180deg shutter for 60fps or 30fps material, since just decimating every other frame gives you 60fps with 180deg shutter, and decimating two and blending two gives you 30fps 180deg shutter. In 24fps I can usually tell the difference between a 1/96 or a 1/30 shutter and 180deg (1/48) but generally find 1/60th to look quite similar to 1/48th and is quite necessary in the presence of non-flicker-free lighting in the US.

Also using the original 120fps open shutter footage is not ideal usually compared to 180deg footage, but I usually find that the open shutter look in some cases is less problematic at higher framerates for content that is not extremely high motion. A 1/120 shutter is fast enough that when shooting many types of motion where there is so little motion blur in the first place, that the difference between that and a 1/240th shutter seems somewhat imperceptible. You would probably notice it for closeups of people jumping or running or shaky camera though, but those things seem they may be a less likely candidate for stock footage.

 

[michael zaletel]

320 x 180 8 fps

 

[Antony M]

I shoot either 24fps or 25fps.

But then, I am in Europe!

 

[Phil Bates]

I think you may have answered this already, but, if you were to start over completely with your library, or if you were just starting out like me, would you have still shot at 30p or would you have done everything at 24p?

I would have still started out at 30p. In my case it had to do with the customer demographic. My primary customers at the start were compositors and visual effects designers, very familiar with piecing things together, layering, etc. Like using the basic parts and pieces of an erector set, they liked all the options they got at 30p. In addition, most of what we shot were effects, backgrounds, aerials, nature and timelapse. Time is arbitrary with that content, both 30p and 24p can be extracted and look great.

However, lately, we have expanded to include editors in large production companies. It is truly a different group with a different mindset. Often, they have librarians researching footage for them, with the stipulation "24fps only". So, we will adjust and give them what they are asking for. In some cases, this will mean shooting the same scene in both 30p and 24p if it involves time-critical subject matter, like people, animals or traffic.

So, bottom line, what is your customer demographic? If you don't know and want to please everyone, I would do multiple takes and shoot both 30fps and 24fps for time-critical subject matter (street scenes, lifestyles, animals). For landscapes, timelapse, slow motion, effects, backgrounds, shoot 30fps and higher (or obviously slower with timelapse), then extract both 30fps and 24fps by time stretching.

Phil