Color Correction for "TimeScapes 4K"

[Tom Lowe]

Forum member Bruce Allen helped me color correct two of the shots in "TimeScapes 4K". He was kind enough to donate his time and talents. I think Bruce did an amazing job! Maybe Bruce can weigh in and tell us how this was done? I want to know myself!

Also, here is my own meager attempt at very simple correction, for the Big Sur sunset shot. The only difference between the top and bottom shot is that I used Red Cine-X Pro Alchemy and Alchemy Saturation in the bottom one vs the standard tools in Adobe CS5.5. As you can see, Alchemy easily wins!! The sun looks like an orange blob in the non-Alchemy version, and looks like film in the Alchemy version. I hope Adobe will implement Alchemy soon, because like Jim said, I will be tempted to use it for nearly every shot!

This is why shooting RAW kicks ass.

 

[Kwan Khan]

Classic...

 

[paulherrin]

hell yeah

 

[Neil Horner]

Great stuff, thanks for sharing Tom!

 

[Bruce Allen]

OK, OK, Tom - am on an insane deadline at work at the moment but will update this post w a nice description of the process tonight with pics etc...

Summary is:
1. Start with the most awesome footage imaginable

Then color correction is easy

Update pt1: BEGIN THE INSANELY-DETAILED TUTORIAL!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Tom Lowe]

:beer:

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Thanks Tom! Interesting stuff. I'd love to see what your S-curves looked like for those shots

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

Summary is:
1. Start with the most awesome footage imaginable

Then color correction is easy

AWESOME quote. AWESOME grades, too.

Just want to add my voice that any finer details you supply, I will be absorbing like a sponge. I'm eagerly awaiting more info.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Tom,
do you see realtime results when checkboxing Alchemy? I've looked on some shots and don't see any realtime difference in look. Now, i've not tried to transcode out yet, but just step one.
Thanks.....

EDIT: Ok, I know why i'm not seeing it. I'm monitoring out of SDI and those effects are likely similar to HDRX in that you cannot monitor them via rocket card out via SDI....i do see them if i turn off my external rocket monitor and view in on my workspace monitor within RCX pro. Sure would be nice if we could get those effects to be seen out of SDI and rocket.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

bump to my question

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Tom,
do you see realtime results when checkboxing Alchemy? I've looked on some shots and don't see any realtime difference in look. Now, i've not tried to transcode out yet, but just step one.
Thanks.....

EDIT: Ok, I know why i'm not seeing it. I'm monitoring out of SDI and those effects are likely similar to HDRX in that you cannot monitor them via rocket card out via SDI....i do see them if i turn off my external rocket monitor and view in on my workspace monitor within RCX pro. Sure would be nice if we could get those effects to be seen out of SDI and rocket.

Or perhaps they end up being utilized by Resolve which could then perhaps offload them to the BM HD-SDI output.

 

[jake blackstone]

Or perhaps they end up being utilized by Resolve which could then perhaps offload them to the BM HD-SDI output.

Steve.
Resolve can't do as you'd suggested, as it is not a color grading software for RED cameras only. Resolve is camera agnostic and, as you know, Alchemy doesn't apply to any other cameras. I strongly believe, that it's wrong path, where only certain cameras use specialized hardware, like RR for debayer (no other camera manufacturers does that) or uses specialized software, like Alchemy. What would happen, if Sony, ARRI, Canon all started doing the same thing? Bad idea all around...

 

[D Fuller]

Steve.
Resolve can't do as you'd suggested, as it is not a color grading software for RED cameras only. Resolve is camera agnostic and, as you know, Alchemy doesn't apply to any other cameras. I strongly believe, that it's wrong path, where only certain cameras use specialized hardware, like RR for debayer (no other camera manufacturers does that) or uses specialized software, like Alchemy. What would happen, if Sony, ARRI, Canon all started doing the same thing? Bad idea all around...

A more interesting idea might be for Resolve to provide its own toolset with similar capabilities. Alchemy reminds me a bit of Clarity in Lightroom. Perhaps for a serious colorist it's a cheap trick, but as Reslove makes its way more into the mainstream, those kinds of tools will gain it fans.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Bruce, did you use Resolve for these shots?

 

[jake blackstone]

A more interesting idea might be for Resolve to provide its own toolset with similar capabilities. Alchemy reminds me a bit of Clarity in Lightroom. Perhaps for a serious colorist it's a cheap trick, but as Reslove makes its way more into the mainstream, those kinds of tools will gain it fans.

Pretty much all high end color grading software supports plug ins one way or another. The most popular framework for that is OFX. Baselight, Nucoda, Smoke and Scratch all support OFX type plug ins. Once Resolve joins the club, many software manufacturers will be able create plugins, like Alchemy. But not now...

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Steve.
Resolve can't do as you'd suggested, as it is not a color grading software for RED cameras only. Resolve is camera agnostic and, as you know, Alchemy doesn't apply to any other cameras. I strongly believe, that it's wrong path, where only certain cameras use specialized hardware, like RR for debayer (no other camera manufacturers does that) or uses specialized software, like Alchemy. What would happen, if Sony, ARRI, Canon all started doing the same thing? Bad idea all around...

Jake, what I was actually wondering is if there's a way to tie this into the RED source window within Resolve, in other words somehow tied to the SDK that Resolve is using. It would of course have to come from RED. Maybe this isn't possible. I'm just not sure.

 

[jake blackstone]

Jake, what I was actually wondering is if there's a way to tie this into the RED source window within Resolve, in other words somehow tied to the SDK that Resolve is using. It would of course have to come from RED. Maybe this isn't possible. I'm just not sure.

If Red decides to include Alchemy in SDK, then, sure, it's possible. But this is a slippery slope, when manufacturer starts including "looks" into SDK. I frequently get mixed source timelines, ie. canon, red, alexa, sony. If that happens and you apply the Alchemy "look" for red files, then how does one applies the same "look" to canon, alexa, sony? As it is, users are confused by complexities of RAW workflow. Don't underestimate the pushback of non-red crowd. If anything, red needs to simplify the workflow, as in Alexa workflow, not complicate it.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

If Red decides to include Alchemy in SDK, then, sure, it's possible. But this is a slippery slope, when manufacturer starts including "looks" into SDK. I frequently get mixed source timelines, ie. canon, red, alexa, sony. If that happens and you apply the Alchemy "look" for red files, then how does one applies the same "look" to canon, alexa, sony? As it is, users are confused by complexities of RAW workflow. Don't underestimate the pushback of non-red crowd. If anything, red needs to simplify the workflow, as in Alexa workflow, not complicate it.

But in fairness, they have a RAW development source window for RED, which is where I was thinking this would end up if anywhere. That way, it's treated like FLUT, or any other parameter in there. Now, I completely admit I'm not sure exactly what they are doing with Alchemy. I have my theories, but that's all they are. So again, maybe it's not something that actually belongs in the REDCODE RAW source settings and perhaps is more like a plug-in. I'd have to be schooled on exactly how Alchemy is working.

 

[Bruce Allen]

A more interesting idea might be for Resolve to provide its own toolset with similar capabilities. Alchemy reminds me a bit of Clarity in Lightroom. Perhaps for a serious colorist it's a cheap trick, but as Reslove makes its way more into the mainstream, those kinds of tools will gain it fans.

Which aspect of Alchemy specifically?

The lightness-only S-curve? You can do that in Resolve.

The combination sharpen / mist effect? That is already in Resolve (not quite the same, but similar)

Better saturation setup than R3D decode saturation? That is also in Resolve.

Bruce, did you use Resolve for these shots?

Yes. Finally off work now and will make screenshots for ya

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Which aspect of Alchemy specifically?

The lightness-only S-curve? You can do that in Resolve.

The combination sharpen / mist effect? That is already in Resolve (not quite the same, but similar)

Better saturation setup than R3D decode saturation? That is also in Resolve.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com