Leica R vs CP 2

[Imran Farouk]

I'm curious which of these sets is best for EPIC/Scarlet? Sharpness, Colour and breathing being a factor,

What I've read so far seems to be there is a lot of love for Leica R and CP2s don't seem to be so widely favored, they are out there but if possible most would pay for the RPPs over the CP2s.

I have no doubt in the RPPs abilities but I'm after a FF35 set since the next set of lenses I'd rather invest in would be the next updated RED Primes for FF35 though considering there isn't a known of when or pricing i'd like something that would tie me over until then. Especially if i end up getting the upgrade for the EPIC before the lenses themselves...

Now... it is unknown, it is ages off (second half of 2012 right?) and there are no details but this is just future proofing to an extent.

So if you had a choice between the CP2s and the Leica Rs which would you take? This is Leica Rs, any choice, including the Summiluxs and cine moded...I've read here that Summiluxs don't have breathing? The breathing being another major factor for me.

Image quality also another factor, any info is much appreciated

 

[Jeff Zueger]

I love my Leicas. There is probably a little more work involved in putting a set together than just purchasing the CP's. You need to find the lenses used, which can be tricky with all the stuff that goes with buying used gear. I had good luck on Ebay. It can be done and I actually enjoyed the experience of finding the lenses. I have 19,24,35,50, 90,100,135 all in canon mount and cinevized. I have 7 high-quality lenses for less than 9k. The price is one thing to consider. I cant tell you the quality difference between the CP2s because I've never worked with them, but I can tell you the Leicas are beautiful.

 

[Imran Farouk]

I love my Leicas. There is probably a little more work involved in putting a set together than just purchasing the CP's. You need to find the lenses used, which can be tricky with all the stuff that goes with buying used gear. I had good luck on Ebay. It can be done and I actually enjoyed the experience of finding the lenses. I have 19,24,35,50, 90,100,135 all in canon mount and cinevized. I have 7 high-quality lenses for less than 9k. The price is one thing to consider. I cant tell you the quality difference between the CP2s because I've never worked with them, but I can tell you the Leicas are beautiful.

Awesome!I do love the Leicas,I have the m-system but the R system lenses seem to be easier to cine-vise, I purchased the 50mm Summilux V2 but holding off actually going all out till I get all my facts straight (I know these lenses are hard to come by, hence the purchase).
Do you find that they breathe?

 

[Jeff Zueger]

Good luck! SOunds like you are off to a good start with the 50 summilux. They breath maybe a little but I've never noticed they breathe to where I noticed it or it bothered me. I do mostly commercials and a lot of slice of life and tourism type stuff, which they are great for. I really like the 50 summicron, would love to use a 50 summilux.

 

[Greg M]

The 50 lux is my favorite lens (R and M)...v2 is a major improvement...but rare (only about 3,000 exist).

IMO The Leica lenses are far superior in look and sharpness, but...
You have to be very careful when selecting Leica R lenses. The newer/later lenses are usually leaps ahead of previous versions so you have to do your homework first
The other issue with Leica-R lenses vs CP2 is the Leicas are still lenses, and take work and $ to adapt to Cine use...and ultimatly they still are a still lens in a cover.
If you're ok with that you will love them.

Is your 50 lux over sn 379xxx? The reason I ask is there are a lot of Ebay listings of V2 lenses that are not actually the latest lens. Be careful on ebay.

 

[Imran Farouk]

The 50 lux is my favorite lens (R and M)...v2 is a major improvement...but rare (only about 3,000 exist).

IMO The Leica lenses are far superior in look and sharpness, but...
You have to be very careful when selecting Leica R lenses. The newer/later lenses are usually leaps ahead of previous versions so you have to do your homework first
The other issue with Leica-R lenses vs CP2 is the Leicas are still lenses, and take work and $ to adapt to Cine use...and ultimatly they still are a still lens in a cover.
If you're ok with that you will love them.

Is your 50 lux over sn 379xxx? The reason I ask is there are a lot of Ebay listings of V2 lenses that are not actually the latest lens. Be careful on ebay.

Hmm...it seems not...#338XXXX is the serial... I haven't received it yet, its still in postal so I guess if its not V2 I can always dispute it? Though there seem to be a ton of versions and its not clear whats a V2 and whats not...I assumed considering they posted it was a V2 and it was a late serial that it was indeed a V2

The serials aren't clear as to whats 'V2' etc. and whats the difference per each one,

I do have eyes though on #379... for an 80mm Summilux and a # 386... for 35mm Summilux


Greg, just wanting to clarify, when you say that they are still lenses at the end of the day, do you mean they still breathe or what exactly? I mean I don't mind putting the money in to get them cine-modded, will be sending mine to Duclos instead of doing them myself but I do prefer if they don't breathe, went the summilux route because one of the threads noted that the Summiluxs dont breathe as well as the newer version of the 19mm.

I assume the CP2s being rehoused and all don't breathe but if the Leica Rs is a leap over them (on speed alone they are but in other areas is the main thing) I'd prefer to go the Leica route. Just hoping for rather no breathing...the 'Leica look' is gorgeous too...though I sort of need to know which would be the better set to pull the trigger on

 

[Christopher Barrett]

I'm working on getting Duclos' rental set for our big Lens Shootout at Whitcomb's next weekend. I've already got the Leica R 28-70 on my Epic, which rocks and I'm really interested in the 35/50/85 Summiluxes as a mini set of super speeds.

Greg is their a database of serial number -> version online anywhere?

CB

 

[Imran Farouk]

Greg is their a database of serial number -> version online anywhere?

CB

http://imx.nl/photo/downloads/files/leicapocket_pod1.pdf

been using this from the other thread, gives years but doesn't give versions or what the differences would be...kind of a pain but the other database that did was the one that pointed out the above lens serial as being V2 when it seems not to be...shame and terribly annoying but thats what I get for ebaying heh

I realize your looking for versions and I am too but maybe thats the closest? doesn't seem to be another database as accurate

 

[Greg M]

Hmm...it seems not...#338XXXX is the serial... I haven't received it yet, its still in postal so I guess if its not V2 I can always dispute it? Though there seem to be a ton of versions and its not clear whats a V2 and whats not...I assumed considering they posted it was a V2 and it was a late serial that it was indeed a V2

The serials aren't clear as to whats 'V2' etc. and whats the difference per each one,

I do have eyes though on #379... for an 80mm Summilux and a # 386... for 35mm Summilux


Greg, just wanting to clarify, when you say that they are still lenses at the end of the day, do you mean they still breathe or what exactly? I mean I don't mind putting the money in to get them cine-modded, will be sending mine to Duclos instead of doing them myself but I do prefer if they don't breathe, went the summilux route because one of the threads noted that the Summiluxs dont breathe as well as the newer version of the 19mm.

I assume the CP2s being rehoused and all don't breathe but if the Leica Rs is a leap over them (on speed alone they are but in other areas is the main thing) I'd prefer to go the Leica route. Just hoping for rather no breathing...the 'Leica look' is gorgeous too...though I sort of need to know which would be the better set to pull the trigger on

Yes, you don't have the 2nd design which started in 1998 and has 8 elements...major improvement over the lens you bought. But the series II or V2 or what ever you want to call it is very rare. expect to pay $4000 or more for a nice one.

The lenses breath, but not bad at all...and personally I would stick with summilux. Especially for the 50mm II, which is as good as the Summicron or better + its two extra stops. The 80mm Summilux only has one design, but the 35mm also has two and the 2nd is also rare., but not as much so as the 50. 35mm Lux is about $3500.

 

[Greg M]

Maybe Jarred will surprise us with an R Mount.

 

[Greg M]

try this:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/R_Lenses_x_Focal_Length

here is the 50 II:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/50mm_f/1.4_Summilux-R_II

another way to tell is the 50mm II is an E60

a lot of guys on Ebay call the E55 a V2, because its a variant of the V1...what confuses matters is that within a lens design, Leica makes variants. In the 50 I there were numerous variants, but the basic lens design is always the same. The 50 II is a whole new lens design 8 lenses in 7 groups, where the 50 I is 7/6

 

[Imran Farouk]

Thanks so much Greg, awesome info

I'm hoping more for an M mount that allows for 21mm to 90mm M system lenses to be used... SpaceCam mount is on its way to me but if RED cracked a way for the lenses to be used with no issue...i'd be sold. @ $800 itd be a bargin!

I do hope though the M system lenes, especially the Summiluxs don't breathe or are at the point where you can't really notice ANY breathing...so its there but its not if that makes sense? Given Pier 59 using Noctilux on actual campaigns versus using a Master Prime does speak volumes to Leicas M system, especially the Noctilux F095.

I'm mainly after the Rs if they don't breathe then I'd happily dive in and pay whatever. Im worried about the CP2s because although their size is awesome the RPPs for an extra few thousand knock them straight out the ball park but with the trade off on size. I'm after a handheld rig really so size matters but so does quality of the lens I put on. I travel quite a bit hence the dilemma. If I was strictly all about filming scripted things I'd happily jump on the RPP wagon. Though when FF35 comes around chances are that the upgrades will be done faster then those RED lenses being pumped out.

 

[C.H.Haskell]

I shot a with Zeiss ZFs which are the same glass elements as the CP2s i believe and optically speaking they are sharp and i felt the look was pretty cool and neutral. I shot a feature with them and the Director was very pleased, did a bunch of travel show work where size and weight was the key factor and they rocked but having said that if I had the option between leica or zeiss back then...would have been a no brainer for me. What can I say, I love leica...both great sets of glass and it boils down to personal taste in the end.

 

[Jeff Zueger]

If you cant find a set to test I would send you mine for the shoot out. I don't have summilux though, mine are summicron.
.

I'm working on getting Duclos' rental set for our big Lens Shootout at Whitcomb's next weekend. I've already got the Leica R 28-70 on my Epic, which rocks and I'm really interested in the 35/50/85 Summiluxes as a mini set of super speeds.

Greg is their a database of serial number -> version online anywhere?

CB

 

[Greg M]

I'm working on getting Duclos' rental set for our big Lens Shootout at Whitcomb's next weekend. I've already got the Leica R 28-70 on my Epic, which rocks and I'm really interested in the 35/50/85 Summiluxes as a mini set of super speeds.

Greg is their a database of serial number -> version online anywhere?

CB

You should check out the 35-70 f2.8...one of the best zooms Leica made. That is if you can find one and don't have to take out a second mortgage to get it.

 

[Christopher Barrett]

LoL... There are three on eBay now... All around 10k. I think I paid 600 bucks for my 28-70.

 

[Greg M]

LoL... There are three on eBay now... All around 10k. I think I paid 600 bucks for my 28-70.

Yea, those sellers are crazy...and there is a big difference in these two lenses. The 35-70 is as good as a prime lens...very rare. Not worth 10k, I would love to find one under 8k though.

 

[C.H.Haskell]

Hey Chris, they used to be 600 and now people are asking 10k...what was the retail value on these things.

Update...so you would say anything under 8k is good Greg?

 

[Greg M]

Hey Chris, they used to be 600 and now people are asking 10k...what was the retail value on these things.

no, its two different lenses. One is a 2.8 and the other is a 4.
The 35-70 is twice the size and 10X the lens...it was around $5-6k new...but Leica only made a few of these as they cost more to make than they sold them for. Exceptional lens. The 28-70 is actually made by Sigma, thats why its cheap. Most of the Leica zooms are made by Minolta. The 35-70 and 70-180 are all Leica and the prices and quality reflect this.

Most of the Leica R lenses are selling at about 50% of what they cost new....except these hard to find ones.
Leica lenses are all hand assembled, so they can't make them in large quantities. They only reason the R lenses are at reasonable prices is the camera system is no longer made...but look at the M lenses...here is a body that hasn't changed since the 50's so if you bought a new M9 today you have 60+ years of lenses at your disposal. But lens prices are still at a premium for certain lenses like the Summilux and Noctilux. A used 35mm Summilux sells for more than a brand new one...the reason- If you want a new 35mm Summilux, the wait is at least 6 months. Same for the 50mm nocti and summilux. Ive seen used current Noctilux sell for $2000 over retail.

As you can tell, I'm obsessed...but a Leica IIf was my first camera when I was a kid and Ive owned dozens of Leicas over the past 35 years. The M9 is my primary still camera today as the M2 was when I started shooting professionally.

 

[C.H.Haskell]

Your doing my head in here Greg ...I have seen that zoom before, not in person...would love to get my hands one. I used to own an M body and was a sad day when I parted with it...but I sold it more then what I found her for. Leica M series is pretty legendary.

Greg would you say that zoom compares to the look/feel of a summilux prime. Thanks for the feedback.

Edit....I see where you already answered that! cheers.