Red Drive Replacement Main Board Pricing or Hyperinflation?

[conrad gaunt]

Labour £75 (no problem)
Shipping £25 (no problem)
RED-DRIVE Mainboard £185 (problem)

Total + VAT : £342.00

So if you have a faulty red-drive.. may as well buy a new one (except you can't of course)

I must be living in an alternative universe. I'll be selling my Epic-X asap unless someone can justify this pricing to me

Anyone know what hardware is in there?

I've been renting my R1 (1912), since I got it.. and at the rates I charge (which are frankly revolutionary), this is a kick in the nuts with a steel toe capped boot..

The boys at red europe don't set prices, but someone does..

I don't feel that anyone has my back

One step forward, one step back

I know the world may be on the brink of hyperinflation, I just didn't realise it had kicked in yet

Can anyone shed some light on these revolutionary prices?

:emote_headwall:

 

[Bob Minervini]

200£ for a full package with lenses. I don't call that revolutionary, I cal that price dumping.

I imagine other rentals are not too pleased with you. But, what do I know, it's a free economy.

But then don't complain on the prices for repair being too high.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Hm...

Kinda explains why rental-rates generally aren't as low as yours, doesn't it?

And what this has to do with your Epic, fails me.

Didn't the RedDrives cost around 900$ ?

Doesn't seem too out of line with the general pricing to me.

Another issue is general pricing of accessories, but that has been discussed to death. RED can set whatever price they think is right, and it is up to us to buy at that price or not buy.

But 300 £ for maintainance of media that "lasts forever", isn't really that bad.
remember tapes?

 

[John Marchant]

Hey Conrad, if you want to sell your X at a price you think Red should be charging, let me know

 

[Jeff Brown]

The fact that this is a major deal to you is the fact why your rental model is unsustainable.

There's are reasons for industry rental rates that goes beyond greed.

1. Repairs/replacement / administration/ owning spares/technical support cost time and money (as you've just found out).
2. If you have to cross hire to cover a regular client and you are charging way under the rate you will lose money on that job (or possibly your client instead).
3. Scrutiny - how / when did your drive break? When did it last work - when was it purchased and how many days has it been used? Who checked and logged it before it's last hire? Manpower and time costs. I've had about 10 repairs like this in the last couple of years (usually user error blowing a firewire bus and thus an insurance claim and more admin).Every drive in and out is checked for both on camera and computer mounted operation. As such I have not ever had to foot that cost of repair myself. See point 1.

None of that is related to your question about why it costs what it does. It's likely it's the main board being replaced which is the brain that makes the whole drive work. As such I think that cost is justified. Knowing these costs and factoring them into your rental charges is vital. See point 1.

I expect 25-30% of every penny I make on rentals to be swallowed up by various upgrades/repairs/overheads. Pre Tax.

I honestly don't know how you can make £150 plus fuel work. The only bit right about it is the vague/TBC "plus fuel".

Just saying.

 

[AndrewThomas]

The other fellas have hit the nail on the head. When you race to the bottom on rental pricing, you have nothing to cover the cost of repairs/upgrades.

 

[Russ Campbell]

The other fellas have hit the nail on the head. When you race to the bottom on rental pricing, you have nothing to cover the cost of repairs/upgrades.

Agreed. Some people just don't seem to get it and cause lots of damage to the rental industry.

 

[conrad gaunt]

200£ for a full package with lenses. I don't call that revolutionary, I cal that price dumping.

I imagine other rentals are not too pleased with you. But, what do I know, it's a free economy.

But then don't complain on the prices for repair being too high.

Why not?

My pricing.. I call it giving access to equipment to filmmakers who are often out of work and not made of cash. ps, I deliver, its not price dumping, it fair pricing

Anyway, I seem to get along with Provision ok? Just dropped some gear off for them along with mine.. you're right to doubt what you know

I can complain about pricing if I wish

 

[conrad gaunt]

Agreed. Some people just don't seem to get it and cause lots of damage to the rental industry.

What damage have I caused to the industry? What industry? In the UK I rarely meet a crew getting paid?.. some people around here really talk out their a****

Thanks for everybodies input, and yes, my work is word of mouth, and perfectly sustainable. And yes, I have regular revenue for repairs, and yes THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS THREAD, which is about pricing. And yes, I just delivered my stuff along with Provision gear to our mutual client (were all friends really), have worked with many many people

What I really wanted to know is what people think a "simple" raid controller should cost, especially if you've opened up a dead red-drive

If your here because you think your some kind of "holistic business guru" or want to prove you can talk without moving your lips .. you're probably one of the people above , except John, whos kind offer I'll reject as there are too many people who'd rather pay higher prices nowadays.. must be the economy.. but thankyou if you did run to Reds defense, your kind are indeed a rare and unpredictable breed around here..

..and you're right, I'm probably not even paying enough for repairs..you've swung it for me.. I was stupid

good luck to you all

 

[Cail Young]

As I've said before, there's a reason RED products/accessories are generally so cheap - they're working on volume not margin. So when things break, the part cost is often a significant component of the list price. Be glad you've never had to repair an original EVF.

I'll leave comments about the UK rental market to those working there but I can say from experience here that there are very few rock-bottom price small shops still operating and those that are surviving do so only because there's a continuous stream of newcomers who don't know any better than to go for the lowest rate around rather than negotiate.

What happens when most film students (or film schools!) can afford to rent/buy a Scarlet (or similar caliber camera)?

 

[Cail Young]

What damage have I caused to the industry? What industry? In the UK I rarely meet a crew getting paid?.. some people around here really talk out their a****

Again, I'll not comment on the UK situation but here it's been a hell of a long time since I had a call that didn't start with "we're a low-budget..."

Guess why producers don't budget much for crew any more - budgets are going down (or they are taking a larger cut). All it takes is a critical mass of desperate crew to accept certain conditions and they become the status quo for all crew in a market (otherwise they won't work).

Same thing applies to gear rental. All it takes is enough people willing to rent below reasonable margin "just to land the job" and all of a sudden nobody has enough money in the budget, ever, to pay for what they're asking for. And suddenly you're doing 75-85% discounts on major television series because otherwise the gear's on the shelf anyway. But when it breaks, who's paying for it? Certainly not the clients...

At least crew can unionise. Price-fixing is illegal (and for good reason), but there's no other mechanism by which budgets for gear can be made more realistic, other than for enough productions to fail catastrophically due to gear failure and/or service inadequacies for the larger pool of producers to take notice.

C'est la vie.

 

[conrad gaunt]

Same thing applies to gear rental. All it takes is enough people willing to rent below reasonable margin "just to land the job" and all of a sudden nobody has enough money in the budget, ever, to pay for what they're asking for. And suddenly you're doing 75-85% discounts on major television series because otherwise the gear's on the shelf anyway. But when it breaks, who's paying for it? Certainly not the clients...

At least crew can unionise. Price-fixing is illegal (and for good reason), but there's no other mechanism by which budgets for gear can be made more realistic, other than for enough productions to fail catastrophically due to gear failure and/or service inadequacies for the larger pool of producers to take notice.

C'est la vie.

Except I don't have to drop my price to get work, I just charge a fair price. Of course, many of my clients actually offer to pay me more, sometimes double what I ask.. go figure that sir

Having a heathy margin does not mean I like paying for over-priced repairs, and I'm not sure the r/d mainboard is fairly priced. I think I made my point

Its good having a complaints department DYT

 

[Scott Crawley]

My pricing.. I call it giving access to equipment to filmmakers who are often out of work and not made of cash. ps, I deliver, its not price dumping, it fair pricing

In other words... You base your rental rates upon what you think things should cost rather than what they actually do cost. Given the actual cost of this repair, I think it would be prudent to re-evaluate your rate on this piece of kit. Don't you? This is essentially what people are saying here.

The key word in the quote is giving access. Another word for giving is charity.

Time will ultimately prove whether or not your rates were right. It won't happen over night. You may not even notice it happening.... It seems you don't. When an organism is attacked by parasites it withers and dies slowly of malnutrition.

Good luck to you sir.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Breakage--if you are in the rental biz, better get used to it and rates that accomodate for breakage.

 

[Jeff Brown]

If you are just renting one camera to poor cap-wringing aspiring filmmakers then fine. Unfortunately your pricing has a wider impact than that. Time will tell that at those rates you will be unlikely to reoup your investment / maintain your equipment or raise enough to continue buying more gear to stay in business (trust me rental is as much about buying new stuff as it is about renting what you have).

At that point I'll have fewer call from Producers in London in this "rental industry" you seem to refuse to acknowledge, telling me that they know where they can get a kit for £150 and that I should do the same rate.

Producers are technically ignorant at the best of times without them thinking that a £150 kit is going to service their shoot with the multitude of additional cables / spares/ AKS / technical support that that requires.

It certainly is a race to the bottom and you are clearly winning. Let me know what it's like when you hit it.

 

[Stephen Williams]

What the OP has to remember is Red will only operate a repair service on low cost items if it's profitable to do so, in this business many people would just throw away an old hard drive & move on. Life is just too short.

 

[Jake Bastian]

Of course, many of my clients actually offer to pay me more, sometimes double what I ask.. go figure that sir

That would be the first clue that you are grossly undercharging. The second being you can't afford the price of a repair.

If anything RED's pricing structure is making it easier for more people to access high-end film making equipment.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

It's OK to work for reasonable rates. It's even OK to work for free. *NEVER* work for cheap, it will screw you every time.

 

[Lorenzo Levrini]

Just wanted to pipe in in Conrad's defence - anyone who knows the London rental market knows that his rates are only a little cheaper than expected if you figure out the differences in kit between him and the other rental houses / small businesses. I've rented from Conrad more than once and he offers a good, albeit stripped down camera kit at a price that helps those just breaking in. And he often gets paid more than what you guys here online think. So I would leave the business modelling to him, and answer with the detail he is asking for, viz. WHY these things cost this much.

 

[Erik Franzén]

Just wanted to pipe in in Conrad's defence - anyone who knows the London rental market knows that his rates are only a little cheaper than expected if you figure out the differences in kit between him and the other rental houses / small businesses. I've rented from Conrad more than once and he offers a good, albeit stripped down camera kit at a price that helps those just breaking in. And he often gets paid more than what you guys here online think. So I would leave the business modelling to him, and answer with the detail he is asking for, viz. WHY these things cost this much.

Much for the same reasons that replacing your iPhone4S touchscreen at retail costs you 20-30% of what the phone cost you in total -- it's not cheap replacing internals, ever. Also, if you aren't accounting for breakage then I seriously question his business sense -- I am not into rental gigs, but I run another business and accounting for returns and similar is essential; if undercutting your competitors comes at the cost of your overhead, then you're doing it wrong.

He's probably a nice guy, but this doesn't make business sense.