Scarlet HDMI-SDI Simultaneous Operation

[Richard Lonsdale]

It's 720p HD-SDI out I believe.

I am one of many people hoping and assuming the HD-SDI will output 1080p at up to 25fps, for use with the PIX 240 ProRes recorder. Jarred confirmed it will work, but didn't mention a 720p limitation. Does anyone know for sure?

Thanks,
Richard

 

[Peter Keith]

I mean more for getting your signal to a client monitor, not for recording purposes. I'd send the signal to the SmallHD, from the SmallHD to the TVLogic, then the TVLogic out to client monitors/wireless transmitter HD-SDI. It's 720p HD-SDI out I believe.

I have a SmallHD DP6-SDI and was wondering about this configuration. Thats a crying shame you aren't able to use both the HDMI and HD-SDI ports simultaneously on the Scarlet.

The smallHD supports HD-SDI in/out but only HDMI in and this doesn't feed through to provide HD-SDI out.

So I guess the config has to be HD-SDI out from the Scarlet to the smallHD and then out to video village. Does anyone know of a reasonable HD-SDI (or HDMI to HD-SDI for that matter!) breakout box/splitter that you could mount to a panel on the scarlet that'd keep things tidier.

Most importantly what is the best way to feed 1080p to the monitors during recording. I understood the scarlet to be able to do this, or am I mistaken?

 

[Nik Lachajczak]

I mean more for getting your signal to a client monitor, not for recording purposes. I'd send the signal to the SmallHD, from the SmallHD to the TVLogic, then the TVLogic out to client monitors/wireless transmitter HD-SDI. It's 720p HD-SDI out I believe.

Monitor fest ..yeh! Truthfully secondary recording low on my vital needs list. But Versatile monitoring options always good + good. Hence the original enquiry. We [soon to b] Scarlet owners just presume its either / or and live with it .. makes buying the touch screen a value added investment though ;-}

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

I am one of many people hoping and assuming the HD-SDI will output 1080p at up to 25fps, for use with the PIX 240 ProRes recorder. Jarred confirmed it will work, but didn't mention a 720p limitation. Does anyone know for sure?

Thanks,
Richard

The post you quoted in your question ... I think they were referring to the output on the TV Logic display.

In any case Epic is 1080p out on the SDI and HDMI live and now on playback.

I assume Scarlet is the same.

Red One is 720p during recording, but is up to 1080p on playback.

Yes, you can record it ... you just have to be a bit finicky about how you set up monitoring, and that it looks the way you want on set for outboard recording. For Epic users ... this means no live recording of slow motion etc. (is slow/fast motion working for playback .. i.e rec 120fps, playback 24fps?)

 

[Kevin Marshall]

Never understood that ... makes no sense.

Both can support 10 bit.

In fact HDMI supports 14 bit and up to 4K. HDMI sucks in some important ways ... but it can deliver better color depth and resolution than 3G HD-SDI

Nevertheless, everyone treats it like the proverbial redheaded step child. What gives?

Is there some technical reason cameras can't output a 10 bit 444 signal over HDMI?

By my understanding, it's not that HDMI can't support it (as you noted with HDMI 1.4), but that most manufacturers simply don't support more than 8 bits on HDMI. I don't know what implementation of HDMI RED has on the Epic/Scarlet, but I also don't know of any external recorder that supports 10bit over HDMI.

 

[Justin Talley]

The post you quoted in your question ... I think they were referring to the output on the TV Logic display.

I was commenting on the TVLogic's limitations.

An interesting question was asked though... It's going to be possible to display the menu on HDMI/HD-SDI based external monitors, correct? Pardon my ignorance.

 

[John Bellari]

3 quick important questions:

1. Does this Scarlet-X restriction on simultaneous output also apply to PLAYBACK,
or just during RECORDING? What are the framerateand resolution restrictions...

2. Does the menu system display on either the HDMI or HD-SDI output?

3. Is the output from HDMI and HD-SDI exactly the same, being 10bit 4:2:2 with AUDIO and embedded timecode?

We look forward to your response....

Any Scarlet-X users out there have better insight on answers to these Questions?

 

[Bob Gundu]

By my understanding, it's not that HDMI can't support it (as you noted with HDMI 1.4), but that most manufacturers simply don't support more than 8 bits on HDMI. I don't know what implementation of HDMI RED has on the Epic/Scarlet, but I also don't know of any external recorder that supports 10bit over HDMI.

HDMI can certainly handle 10bit. Its up to the camera to feed a 10bit signal. Both Atomos and SoundDevices recorders can record 10bit over HDMI or SDI.

 

[Francesco Cammarata]

I can't understand why any from Red tech. will give a inequivocable answer.

1. HDMI out is working? Resolution? Bit?
2. SDI out is Working? Resolution? Bit?

PLS we speak for one product cost 15.000$ not 15$.

 

[David Rasberry]

I can't understand why any from Red tech. will give a inequivocable answer.

1. HDMI out is working? Resolution? Bit?
2. SDI out is Working? Resolution? Bit?

PLS we speak for one product cost 15.000$ not 15$.

Published spec sheet for Scarlet says 10bit 4:2:2 1080p or 720p. No reason it would not be the same for both HDMI and HDSDI. Apparently only one or the other can be active at a time for Scarlet and Epic under the current firmware build but Epic will eventually be capable of having both active. This is still a significant upgrade as the 2/3" Scarlet did not have HDSDI on the brain.

 

[Francesco Cammarata]

Published spec sheet for Scarlet says 10bit 4:2:2 1080p or 720p. No reason it would not be the same for both HDMI and HDSDI. Apparently only one or the other can be active at a time for Scarlet and Epic under the current firmware build but Epic will eventually be capable of having both active. This is still a significant upgrade as the 2/3" Scarlet did not have HDSDI on the brain.

First of all thank you for answering my questions, the problem is this 1080p or 720p, now my poor english is not enough to understand correctly, what is mean? 1080p and 720p, 1080p or maybe 720p?
If is the second one you can understand that is not a precise answer to my question, I don't need 720p at all, for shure in the next time the OS will be implemented but I buy now this camera and I want know precisely what it can do right now for my work.
I can't buy the Scarlet and put in a case and wait since the OS will performed what I need.
I'm 50 years old and I don't like buy under exciting status only because is a Red or Canon or other production.
After I ear that Red is a serious group I order the Scarlet with closed eyes, now I like to taste if this was correct or not.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

I was just reading the Scarlet ops guide:
"In its default configuration, the RED SCARLET-X camera can simultaneously support one VIEWFINDER output (suitable for use by a BOMB EVF®, or RED LCD) plus one HD-SDI based PROGRAM output and one HDMI based PREVIEW output."

Sounds to me like they are saying HDMI and HD-SDI are supported simultaneously.

 

[Andrew Allsbury]

Saw the same thing Noah...that would be great

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Then later in the monitor control section it says HDMI and HD-SDI cannot be enabled at the same time, so the first one might just be a typo or copied over from the EPIC manual

 

[Matt Johnston]

Then later in the monitor control section it says HDMI and HD-SDI cannot be enabled at the same time, so the first one might just be a typo or copied over from the EPIC manual

In the Menu Map of the Scarlet Ops manual there is this:

HDMI and HD-SDI cannot be enabledat the same time. Camera MUST be restarted for changes to take effect.

Plus, there have been a couple of REDTEAM posts about it. So it is not possible.

 

[Victor Lazaro]

Just wondering if the simultaneous output for the Epic is still on the roadmap, and if so ETA?
This would be a great addition, especially if we can choose one output with the HUD and the other one clean.
Would be extremely useful thanks.

 

[Gunnar Laal]

Could someone confirm it´s never happening for the Scarlet? Right now trying to use the Paralinx Arrow seems impossible and a real blow to them. All monitoring is run on SDI and sticking an SDI-HDMI converter on the camera makes it a fuzzball of cables and boxes once again. I doubt there will be an SDI version of the Arrow any time soon...

 

[Bob Gundu]

Could someone confirm it´s never happening for the Scarlet? Right now trying to use the Paralinx Arrow seems impossible and a real blow to them. All monitoring is run on SDI and sticking an SDI-HDMI converter on the camera makes it a fuzzball of cables and boxes once again. I doubt there will be an SDI version of the Arrow any time soon...

Not sure what your question is here. SDI and HDMI both output now.

 

[Craig Lees]

The small portable (and magic arm-able) TV Logic and the Atomos Samurai both read the Scarlet's HDSDI just fine. Scarlet delivers a True Progressive 3G signal, which a lot of the older monitors cannot read. The signal is 1080 60p too so if you have a data recorder that can handle 60fps HD True Progressive recording (NOT PsF) and you enable the "Look Around" setting at the same time -to make the most out of your lovely sensor and lovely lenses (less crop factor), select clean feed et VOILA, lovely lovely HD (some of the best 10Bit I have seen). Plus, enable External Recording Only and every time you hit REC on your Scarlet, your Samurai will record lovely pictures with more tolerance to higher ISO and carry onboard sound through the HDSDI (fan will go quiet if you set settings to 25% fan noise on record and don't mount it right next to the fan). You can loop through the HDSI signal on BOTH the Samurai and the small TV Logic (The TV Logic has 1.1 pixel focus assist plus waveforms which are really handy).

Not sure about running both HDSI & HDMI at the same time but remember having problems running HDMI out onto the portable Tv Logic monitor once but our trusty 1st AC fixed this by changing the setting output to 720p (running beta 3.3.3 - not sure if this was a factor?). If you had the option to run monitoring through HDSDI or HDMI (such as using a small TV Logic) surely it's a no brainer. HDSDI locks in!?! Not sure if this helps but after quite a few perilous location shoots now as a Scarlet newbie, this is what I've figured. Please correct me if I sound very very wrong? PS I'm sure all this is in previous threads and in the Red manuals but.. not sure I answered the question but hey... hope this helps?...

 

[Marq Lee]

Hi there guys,

RED tech just confirmed YOU CAN simultaneously output signals from both ports with the latest FW v3.3.4 / v3.3.12.

Marq