Let's talk about Computer for Scarlet

[James B]

...... Then, when your film is cut, replace all the footage with the R3Ds and grade it, tweak it, make it beautiful......

I am new to this, so thank you David for pointing out the big picture to me.

And I have been wondering ... is there some software that remembers all my cuts etc and what takes I used and then it just fetches the original R3Ds as needed to make the finished product applying all my previous edits and stuff and works all night without me, or do I have to write down on paper every little thing I do in the editor as I edit ?

 

[Brian Iannone]

Brian, would you mind expanding some on UPS and perhaps what is a good brand to consider.

A UPS is an Uninterruptible Power Supply. It's basically a surge protector, but with a built-in battery. You plug it into the wall, and there's typically between six to ten outlets on the UPS itself that you can plug things into. You want to plug all your electronic devices into the UPS to ensure that if there's a power surge, your electronics won't get fried. Things like monitors, printers, TV's (any device without a hard drive) should all be plugged into the Power Surge Only outlets on the UPS. Then, there's usually two or four outlets on the UPS that are connected to the UPS's built-in battery. Any device (i.e. computers) that have a hard drive should be connected to these outlets. If your computer is connected to one of the Battery Backup outlets on the UPS and the power goes out, your computer will stay on. Depending on the size of the UPS's battery (and the price of the UPS), the amount of time it'll keep your computer and/or other connected devices will vary. However, usually they'll last for between 5-30 minutes. I think everyone here knows what would happen if you shut off power to a spinning hard drive. (Bad things...) A UPS ensures that if the power goes out, you'll have a few minutes to properly shut down your equipment.

APC makes the best UPS's. Their "Back-UPS" line is good for equipment that uses little power. But if you have some computers with large power supplies, you'll want to go with one of their "Back-UPS Pro" models. I use their Back-UPS Pro 1500 model for my editing PC (which has a 1.2 kW power supply) and it keeps the computer on idle running for about 20 minutes. I personally like their BE750G (for low-power equipment) and BR1500G (for high-power equipment) models.

Wow, I feel like a salesman after writing all that. I hope it helps!

 

[D Fuller]

I am new to this, so thank you David for pointing out the big picture to me.

And I have been wondering ... is there some software that remembers all my cuts etc and what takes I used and then it just fetches the original R3Ds as needed to make the finished product applying all my previous edits and stuff and works all night without me, or do I have to write down on paper every little thing I do in the editor as I edit ?

Any of the major editing programs will do this. How it works is slightly different, depending on what software you are editing in, and what software you want to finish in, but in principal, they are similar: in the editing program, you create a project file that is readable by the finishing program (XML, AAF, etc.), remove the files you have been editing with, open the project file in the finishing program and re-link the project to the master files.

It's not Editing 101, but it probably is Editing 102. You can find the details relevant to your particular software on their own forum (Adobe, Avid, etc), or on Creative Cow or Lynda.com

 

[Brad Crawford]

My rig at the moment is an i7 920 currently stock clocked at 2.67 ghz. I'll probably overclock it to at least 3. something once I get into the 4k footage.

I've got 12 gigs of ram, max that my Asus board can take.


All apps are installed on a 120 GB SSD but i'm thinking to pick up a 2nd 120 and RAID 0 them together to double the size/speed.


I bought a great DELL hardware raid card that i'm using to run 2 large RAIDs. The first is a 2 TB RAID 10 which is my go-to editing raid where I throw footage i'm currently using.

the second is a 4.5 TB RAID 5 that is for storing backups and secondary projects/footage.

I'm looking at grabbing several 4 bay externals to offload footage/backups and will also be using several single drive external bays to offload footage via firewire in the field and swap out naked drives as needed.

I just hope the Thailand gets back on its feet so HDD prices go back down.


Video card currently is 2x Geforce 275s but I will upgrade to either a 500 series or 600 series once I have my scarlet.

OS: Windows 7 64

Editing with Premiere 5.5

 

[Jon Thomasberg]

Jon,

(nice name by the way) Have you already built this? I will be doing a very similar setup:
2x 5690
SR-2
48GB Mushkin
dual gtx580 hydros (no SLI bridge [doesn't work in CS5.5] 1 GUI, 1 GPU)
*all the above on water cooling via EK and Koolance parts.
2x OWC 240 SATA3 SSD (boot) RAID0 software
1x OWC 240 SATA2 SSD (scratch)
4x WD RE4 2TB 7200 SATA2 spinners (data)

near future: will be adding LTO5 drive for backups

I'm assuming no rocket, right? Have you edited/graded any R3Ds on it yet? If so, using what software and at what debayer?

PC:
Dual Xeon 5690's
EVGA Classified SR-2
48GB RAM
Dual Nvidia Quadro 6000's
4x OCZ 480GB SSD's
Dual 27" Doublesight monitors
Soon to have a PCIe to SAS ARECA external RAID SSD configuration as well.

 

[Jon Thomasberg]

Those looking at the i7 2600(k) or 2700 might want to check out the performance differences between them and the i7-980x or 990x before buying. Especially if you are using these for debayering R3Ds without a rocket. Yea, 2600/2700 are new SB architecture and have an upgrade path, certain video compression acceleration for stuff like h.264, but they do no acceleration for R3D debayer. They are 4-core, vs 980/990 with 6-cores, but also about 1/3 the price. However, of the benchmarks I've seen (Cinebench 11.5 scores http://www.cbscores.com/ ; and the Premier Pro benchmarks http://ppbm5.com/DB-PPBM5-2.php ) they sort of speak for themselves in favor of the 9xx series, even though the 9xx series is at the end of the line in their production cycle.

Also, I'm sure most do know, but just incase anyone doesn't know what the "k" in 2600k and "x" in 980x or 990x signify, it is that they are unlocked processors, meaning that they can be overclocked from their intended stock frequency. In order to benefit from overclocking other tweaks are usually necessary, such as better cooling and usually more power consumption (read: requiring a higher-watt power supply then otherwise) but that goes beyond the scope of this post. Just know that if you intend to overclock your CPUs, you will need these processor versions rather than the same model number without the letter identifiers after them, which are locked by intel to the stock frequency.

Just some things to ponder. Hope this helps in your quest.

PS -- AFAIK you cannot buy overclockable systems from any of the big OEMs (Dell, HP, etc.)

 

[Jon Jones]

Jon,

(nice name by the way) Have you already built this? I will be doing a very similar setup:
2x 5690
SR-2
48GB Mushkin
dual gtx580 hydros (no SLI bridge [doesn't work in CS5.5] 1 GUI, 1 GPU)
*all the above on water cooling via EK and Koolance parts.
2x OWC 240 SATA3 SSD (boot) RAID0 software
1x OWC 240 SATA2 SSD (scratch)
4x WD RE4 2TB 7200 SATA2 spinners (data)

near future: will be adding LTO5 drive for backups

I'm assuming no rocket, right? Have you edited/graded any R3Ds on it yet? If so, using what software and at what debayer?

Jon, I am going to build this next month (waiting on the $18,000) that it is going to cost. Although I do have the dual monitors . Yeah I decided not to go with the Rocket because of the dual Quadro's, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to need it.

Right now my rig consists of:
I7 990x
24GB Kingston ValueRam
Dual GeForce 460 1GB video cards SLI
REVO DRIVE 3
Adobe Premiere Pro

I have messed with some sample HDRx files on my current rig without any problem, but the problem is rendering, my 1GB of video ram is not near big enough channel to render such big files, and as you mentioned SLI is of no consequence (it does not double the channel size) with PP. I have a RED STATION that I will use to transfer files via eSATA onto my editing platform. I do however have CINEFORM to Debay if needed. I plan on rendering in PP right out of REDCINE however, so Debaying will probably not be needed. I may be wrong, but this is true to my knowledge at least.

 

[Mike Garrick]

OK as mentioned earlier I'm not "tech head" but for people with existing systems with Thunderbolt who want to "up" more card slots.

http://www.magma.com/thunderbolt.asp

 

[Tim Nitsch]

Why is everyone running multiple regular videos cards instead of like a Red Rocket card?

 

[Carter Cammack]

Computer guys. Look these specs over and see if this will get me by until I can get a Rocket.
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Power_Mega_3000/
It has the I7 3930K LQ w Smartcache and a 2 gig Quadro already. If I double the RAM to 32, it's about $3115.
(Not cheap, I know. Some of you guys could build it for 2500. I can't.)
I love the case with the drive-dock on top. And it has a backplane cage already. Looks like HAL.
Kinda curious about the Smartcaching feature with that big SSD.

 

[Jon Thomasberg]

Why is everyone running multiple regular videos cards instead of like a Red Rocket card?

RedRocket is not a video card per se, it is only intended as a hardware accelerator to debayer R3Ds, if you don't have a (or some have 2) RedRockets, the debayer happens in software utilizing CPU cores. Video cards are for pretty much everything else. The reason why many people get video cards is to have 1 dedicated to displaying the images on the screen(s), also known as GUI. The other is used exclusively for crunching renders, also known as GPU. Finally, some programs can leverage more than 1 GPU, however some cannot. But for many applications 1 GUI and 1 GPU does the trick.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

I wouldn't recommend getting a quadro gpu unless you're sure you need it... usually only useful if you are using Maya... What's with everyone getting multiple gpus? I've seen various tests showing the difference between a $150 GPU for CUDA and a $500 GPU for CUDA is fairly minimal, I bet a second GPU does almost nothing for PPro CS5. I assume most people are using their CUDA GPUs for PPro MPE? I've only used my old desktop's 9800GT and new laptop's 525M GPUs for PPro MPE, but I've generally been fairly impressed that they give me multiple layers of accelerated filters in realtime.

I'd be interested to see how CPUs compare for R3D playback. Seems like 4k 1/2 res timeline playback is the most anyone monitoring in 1080p would ever need. More could be useful if you are cropping for stabilization or reframing. Anyone get there without a red rocket on their cpu? how about multiple layers?

my i7-920 (older portable workstation) and i7-2630QM (laptop) seem to get me 1/4 res playback of 4.5K

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

RedRocket is not a video card per se, it is only intended as a hardware accelerator to debayer R3Ds, if you don't have a (or some have 2) RedRockets, the debayer happens in software utilizing CPU cores. Video cards are for pretty much everything else. The reason why many people get video cards is to have 1 dedicated to displaying the images on the screen(s), also known as GUI. The other is used exclusively for crunching renders, also known as GPU. Finally, some programs can leverage more than 1 GPU, however some cannot. But for many applications 1 GUI and 1 GPU does the trick.

What application are you using that uses separate GPUs for separate functions?

 

[Jon Thomasberg]

Computer guys. Look these specs over and see if this will get me by until I can get a Rocket.
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/Power_Mega_3000/
It has the I7 3930K LQ w Smartcache and a 2 gig Quadro already. If I double the RAM to 32, it's about $3115.
(Not cheap, I know. Some of you guys could build it for 2500. I can't.)
I love the case with the drive-dock on top. And it has a backplane cage already. Looks like HAL.
Kinda curious about the Smartcaching feature with that big SSD.

Some things to consider:
-6 core Sandy Bridge is good stuff. Also, good choice on the CPU model as the marginal performance gains going to a 3960X would be getting 16 instead of 12 on the cache, but barely any bump in clockrate, at an extra $500 (doesn't really justify the price unless you are overclocking)
-Small thing, but I'd spend the extra $29 and get the Enermax quiet 120mm fan option.
-1 Quadro 4k is fine for GUI, what are you gonna use for rendering ? (add a 2nd Quadro 4k)
-1k power supply might not cut it under load. I'd get a 1200 at min, or even a 1500 for a little cushion. Corsair is good, Thermaltake and Silverstones work really well. But when you get to rendering, you don't want your powersupply to only capable of supplying a peak 1000 watts when your compenents want 1250 to run at full capability. The components will dumb-down due to lack of power, thus slowing everything down and negating the benefits of high-end components.
-Max out your RAM for whatever you can afford. Looks like 32GB of DDR3-1600 is max on that 4-slot MoBo (no details on the RAM specs and its timings gives me pause). If you can afford the 8 slot, even better. But with 32 you should be good.
-Upgrade the SSD to the OCZ Vertex 3 120GB at a minimum for a system drive. Even better is 2 of them configured in a RAID0. Without getting technical and telling you about IOPS, The 60GB Agility says SATA3 like the Vertex3, but the performance (especially sequential reads/writes) is 1/2 the speed because the NAND flash used in the Agility is Asynchronous, whereas the Vertex NAND is Synchronous. When you are dealing with moving huge amounts of uncompressed video data around it makes a HUUUGE difference in speed.
-I see you spec'd a 2TB 7200 rpm drive, for DATA storage use I assume. Decent. However, a RAID setup with multiple drives would pay good dividends here in speed performance. You also might wan to consider another super fast drive for SCRATCH use.
##Configuration note: With 32GB of RAM your computer will likely not need to access your swap/pagefile often, however from the beginning you will want to lock its min & max size and put it on a drive other than the one running the OS. Letting Windows manage your pagefile size dynamically will reduce performance over time.

Now with that built, you will want to come up with a backup strategy. But this is a good start.

Hope that helps,

 

[Jon Thomasberg]

What application are you using that uses separate GPUs for separate functions?

Premier CS5 for one -- Under VIDEO RENDERING AND PLAYBACK>RENDERER: Choose Mercury Playback Engine GPU acceleration. Bingo, your 2nd card used only for render processing.

 

[Jon Thomasberg]

I wouldn't recommend getting a quadro gpu unless you're sure you need it... usually only useful if you are using Maya... What's with everyone getting multiple gpus? I've seen various tests showing the difference between a $150 GPU for CUDA and a $500 GPU for CUDA is fairly minimal, I bet a second GPU does almost nothing for PPro CS5. I assume most people are using their CUDA GPUs for PPro MPE? I've only used my old desktop's 9800GT and new laptop's 525M GPUs for PPro MPE, but I've generally been fairly impressed that they give me multiple layers of accelerated filters in realtime.

I'd be interested to see how CPUs compare for R3D playback. Seems like 4k 1/2 res timeline playback is the most anyone monitoring in 1080p would ever need. More could be useful if you are cropping for stabilization or reframing. Anyone get there without a red rocket on their cpu? how about multiple layers?

my i7-920 (older portable workstation) and i7-2630QM (laptop) seem to get me 1/4 res playback of 4.5K

Gaming cards such as the GTX580 are great when comparing price vs. performance, especially the new 3GB versions. As pointed out elsewhere by Jeff Kilgroe and others, the GTX590 is actually 2x 1.5GB 580s on 1 board. Thus, because Adobe only supports 1 GPU card for MPE CUDA acceleration, you would only realize the performance of a 1.5 GB 580, but possibly worse due to the clock rate reduction. As far as the Quadro line, they are great boards for 3d modeling and effects work, they also have the added benefit of being 10-bit vs the GTX line at 8-bit. Also, people have stated that the GTXs run hotter. I'm not worried to much because they will have their own hydro loop in my next build. I am personally going with 2x EVGA GTX 580 3GB Hydros on a 12-core XEON SR-2.

 

[SUNILPREM]

I am happy with this ,
MOTHERBOARD---ASUS P6X58-E Pro-----------$220
CPU-----Intel i7-980 Hex Core-----$580
RAM---G.SKILL Ripjaws 24GB (6 x 4GB) SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)-----------$150
SYSTEM DRIVE-----WD VelociRaptor WD6000HLHX 600GB 10,000RPM-----------------$250
GPU----Quadro4000-----$849
CASE-----Antec Nine Hundred Two v3Black ATX ---$119
POWER----CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W-----------$135
OS-----Win 7 Prof OEM---------$139
OPTICAL DRIVE---BDR-206---------$99
Total-------$2541
Then monitor Dell ST2320L full HD led monitor ----$169
http://accessories.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&sku=320-9333
This is from video guys blog
http://videoguys.com/Guide/E/Videog...+Fall/0x094b1737e0a06c495e5178a167fbdbd7.aspx
This is rocking,I like it verymuch

 

[BrandonChristensen]

I have an 8-core 3.00GHZ Mac Pro.

My GPU is the ATI Radeon 5770.

Not the best for graphics work, really...seems kind of useless. But it's nice for gaming. Having said that, can I add a Quadro to the bundle and use that for AE-stuff and leave the 5770 for general purpose/gaming?

 

[Carter Cammack]

Thanks BIG, Jon T. I'm a bit less clueless now.
It's possible that this explains why I have seen high-end systems that can chew up shit and spit out gold all day, and another with "seemingly" similar specs that has a fatal stroke at the mention of "render". I don't want to spend that many thousands on a system that doesn't fly.
Also the dual Quadros will help when I'm building 3D characters and props in Poser or C4D to export as 2D stills to Toonboom to rig and animate. This one, with your modifications, should do it all, and be RED ready before I have a camera in hand.

Some things to consider:
-6 core Sandy Bridge is good stuff. Also, good choice on the CPU model as the marginal performance gains going to a 3960X would be getting 16 instead of 12 on the cache, but barely any bump in clockrate, at an extra $500 (doesn't really justify the price unless you are overclocking)
-Small thing, but I'd spend the extra $29 and get the Enermax quiet 120mm fan option.
-1 Quadro 4k is fine for GUI, what are you gonna use for rendering ? (add a 2nd Quadro 4k)
-1k power supply might not cut it under load. I'd get a 1200 at min, or even a 1500 for a little cushion. Corsair is good, Thermaltake and Silverstones work really well. But when you get to rendering, you don't want your powersupply to only capable of supplying a peak 1000 watts when your compenents want 1250 to run at full capability. The components will dumb-down due to lack of power, thus slowing everything down and negating the benefits of high-end components
.##Configuration note: With 32GB of RAM your computer will likely not need to access your swap/pagefile often, however from the beginning you will want to lock its min & max size and put it on a drive other than the one running the OS. Letting Windows manage your pagefile size dynamically will reduce performance over time.

Now with that built, you will want to come up with a backup strategy. But this is a good start.

Hope that helps,

 

[Tim Nitsch]

RedRocket is not a video card per se, it is only intended as a hardware accelerator to debayer R3Ds, if you don't have a (or some have 2) RedRockets, the debayer happens in software utilizing CPU cores. Video cards are for pretty much everything else. The reason why many people get video cards is to have 1 dedicated to displaying the images on the screen(s), also known as GUI. The other is used exclusively for crunching renders, also known as GPU. Finally, some programs can leverage more than 1 GPU, however some cannot. But for many applications 1 GUI and 1 GPU does the trick.

I'm not very conserned with getting Realtime play back at 4k (1/4 res is fine with me), its the time it takes to export 4k R3D's to ProRes thats scaring me away from getting a Scarlet.

When working with 4k footage, is having powerful CPUs more effective then having a RedRocket?

I guess I should include that I would be editing on the 2.4GHz 8 core "Westmere" MacPro if that helps.