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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HDRx - Tone Mapping and Control

Zeb B

Zeb B

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Hey Graeme,
In still photography there are powerful HDR programs like Photomatix, Topaz and NIK that allow amazing control over the HDR processing. So couple questions for you if you please:

1 Any plans for tone mapping like controls in CineX to further work the HDRx feature?
2. Any tips on how to best use the current HDRx feature currently in place?
3. Any limitations on the current build (I hear "don't shoot over 3 stops")
4. I'm not seeing much benefit of the HDRx feature - slider just makes it lighter or darker - I must be missing something.
5. I am told that to get benefit from HDRx files I need to export to Resolve since they have better controls.
6. What's this guys five step process and how can I do this?: http://vimeo.com/32162661

Thank you for your time and consideration
 
1. We'll leave tonemapping to the tonemappers. If there does happen to be anything done in this area it won't be the "dayglow" HDR stuff.
2. Practice! And be really sure you need HDRx before you use it. Most times I've been out and tried it I've found the native DR of the Epic was just fine for my needs. If you do try it, try +3 as a starting point. Make sure the base image is going into hard clip and there's still some very very dark shadows.
3. +3 is not a limitation, just a practical realization that in most situations it's hard to find enough DR to stress the HDRx range available. I've melted back-lit test charts trying to fully measure at +6.
4. HDRx is about capturing range. My advice would be to output an EXR from your HDRx and take that somewhere like Photoshop or Nuke and examine the captured range you have. Or use MagicMotion on a REDLogFilm export, drop back the exposure to ensure nothing is clipping at the bright end, and take that to grade. You'll have a very flat image, but all the range there to grade from.
Resolve takes a different approach where you key on the over-exposed image then bring into that key the under-exposed regions. It can work, or not, depending on the kind of shot and if there's a sharply defined over-exposed region or not.
6. That's an example of dayglow. We don't do that.

Graeme
 
I'm not suggesting HDRx do "Day Glow" only although there are applications where that style of effect might be very appropriate. Music videos and commercials come to mind. It's not all Features out there. I'm looking for the ability to do Still Photo like HDR control within CineX. Do I have to export to a 3rd party program to realize the full benefit of HDRx?

Man, I would pay big bux to have someone produce a detailed tutorial series of the CineX workflow for topics like this. Kinda like:

http://www.niksoftware.com/learnmore/usa/index.php
 
We focus on RAW development, rather than grading solutions. I think you'll only get the full benefit of our normal DR, never mind extended DR from HDRx through proper grading. That could be said for other cameras too, but especially for Epic and doubly so for HDRx.

Graeme
 
Josh, you should look into some of the FXPHD courses. They have several RED based courses and a forum where you can ask questions to even help drive the direction of the class.

RCXP is constantly evolving, not sure an on-line class could keep up. The best way to learn it is to jump in and start pushing buttons. Even better if you have a small personal project that will force you through the workflow.
 
Hey Graeme,
Thank you for your time. Could you please help a new user understand what CineX is and isn't so I can continue my quest for an idea of what I need to own/learn in order to fully utilize RED files. Is CineX just a RAW converter (like Adobe Camera Raw) - with the main function being moving R3D files from camera to 3rd party programs for grading? As a DSLR guy I understand the still process: Camera Raw Aquistion - Raw Converter - Photoshop/Photomatix/LR(can have round-trips here) - Output

CineX is (functions that are critical or best done within CineX)
1.
2.
3.

CinX isn't (or functions can be much better done in other programs)
1.
2.
3.
 
Yes, RCX is primarily a RAW converter. We have some basic grading controls in there - 3way colour correction for instance, and have began to add some basic post-correction tools like the new Film Grain, Skin, Clarity controls. What RCX doesn't do is spatial things like windows, masks, keys etc. which are best done in a grading package like Resolve. Neither does it do more specialist things like tonemapping, but it will create the basic high dynamic range EXR file which contains all the data you need to tonemap, should that be the direction you want to take it in.

Graeme
 
Thanks for the info. Is Resolve the "Photoshop" of the small operator film industry? Trying to figure out what I need to own and learn. Looks like quite a bit more
 
Resolve and After Effects key tools for manipulating motion imagery. There are others two, but I'm most familiar with them both.

Graeme
 
Thanks and great work over there! Send me Canon AF when able ; )
 
After Effects is the Photoshop of the small operator film industry. Resolve is the Baselight of the small operator film industry.
 
Resolve is a great tool, but the notion of "Photoshop" is wrong, since Photoshop can do a lot of compositing for stills.
Resolve is 'only' color grading, but very good at that.
Compositing is After Effects, Nuke, Shake (discontd.), Smoke etc.
 
Jake Bastian said:
Resolve is the Baselight of the small operator film industry.
Click to expand...

that is quite a wrong statement ... Resolve is used at Company 3 to grade the Biggest Blockbuster movies on Earth ( transformers etc...)

problem is that these days people think that resolve is a 1K software "only" package ... well is not a serious resolve system cost 100K (linux workstation , multiple GPU resolve panel etc...)

g
 
I started using RedLogfilm to grade HDRX stuff. Is this a better option? It seems to give me more lattitude to play with on the curve. What do you guys think?
 
Yes.
 
The alchemy setting looks like it has a spacial processing component at first glance, perhaps it can be considered a very mild tone mapping. I haven't bothered verifying this. Just a hunch.

I use mild tone mapping on almost all of my photography, even portraits, I like the gritty look. Photomatix needs gpu acceleration, too slow for movies IMO.
 
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