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Epic-X #538 - Notes From The Field

T

Tim Morten

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I recently received my Epic-X and an Optitek Nikon mount, which had their first real-world use last weekend on a short film by some AFI grads. I used the beta firmware (because HDMI support was required).

Some notes from the shoot:

The good
  • No major issues; shooting was never interrupted by the camera
  • Loving the new interface versus Red One
  • Native ISO 800 enabled reliance on modest lights (CoolLights LED’s, plus low wattage HMI’s)
  • Cheap ($50) PortaBrace shoulder pad on 19” rods with Red handles, a CineArm for the LCD, and a RedBrick at the back for counter-balance was a surprisingly usable “poor-man’s” hand-held rig
  • Reduced weight made operating hand-held substantially more sustainable than Red One
  • Epic’s start-up time is phenomenal relative to Red One
  • 256GB SSD was easily enough capacity for an entire day of setups
  • RedBricks last even longer than on Red One
  • RedCine-X Pro was a helpful on-set tool for verifying takes in lieu of having in-camera playback
  • Truly incredible how much capability is packed into Epic’s small/light package
  • ProLock mount was rock-solid
  • Duclos-modded ZF's and Nikon zooms all performed well
The challenging (reminder: this was on beta firmware)
  • Had a couple of instances where the touchscreen went unresponsive; reboot corrected this (perhaps a cable detach/re-attach could have done so as well)
  • In a few instances, a tint was inadvertently applied (not a big deal since this is metadata, but it scared some people at first). Unless there’s a shortcut I don’t know about, I don’t think this was user error. It is also a bit non-obvious how to reset tint on Epic: hold, don’t tap, on color temperature to access the advanced menu; a quick RedUser search revealed this, and apparently it's also in the manual, so I guess that's an RTFM demerit for me. Not sure how the tint got set in the first place though.
  • Got a message about media not being attached a few times and had to re-seat the SSD. Easy to correct (no power down required), but made me want to gaff tape the SSD in place. Perhaps a flakey SSD (it had seen prior use), or perhaps just a beta firmware quirk.
  • We ran the HDMI out to a 7” Marshall for the focus puller, but it would have been nice to be able to simultaneously have an HD-SDI output for a director’s monitor (I think dual-output is coming?).
  • Once, the camera booted with a noisy magenta strip displayed down the side of both screens. A reboot fixed this.
  • Once, the camera booted to a black screen. A reboot fixed this.
  • Using RedVolts in the side-handle doesn’t provide much run-time; fortunately we had RedBricks and the adapter cable, but I’m looking forward to the quad module.
  • Having in-camera playback could have saved us some time, but wasn’t a major issue
  • Bought a second XLR to 3.5 cable at Samy’s, and it didn’t pass audio through for some reason (wrong internal cable wiring, or just a faulty cable perhaps?).
I’m always fascinated by other people’s perceptions of Red:
  • DP laments how Red images look too sharp; asks for a ProMist
  • I mention that the quad battery module and Redmote haven’t shipped to me yet; the director and DP roll their eyes; one says something like “Oh Red, when will you learn?”
  • Director asks whether simultaneous EVF and touchscreen will be supported; I say that I think this will be possible (Pro I/O?); he grumbles that this should have been possible out of the box
  • 2nd AC comments on how 5k isn’t really 5k. Then goes on to say Red is too sharp. Says Red only got picked for Spiderman because of personal politics, not because of how good it looks. Then goes on to say how great F65 is, with its “8k” resolution, seemingly contradicting the prior comment on sharpness.
  • DP asks for a 200 degree shutter; I explain that because there’s no mechanical shutter, speed setting is done in fractions of a second rather than degrees; DP seems frustrated, but I quickly looked up the conversion.
  • Towards the end of the shoot, the DP is punching around on the touchscreen to check exposure, and has some interface trouble (either inadvertently tapped a button, or a button became non-responsive… not sure which). If I’m not mistaken, I think I heard some unkind words about Epic...
Footage is being edited/graded elsewhere, so I don’t have any notes on that aspect as yet.

Lessons learned:
  1. Personally, I feel that Epic is the best camera I’ve ever worked with
  2. Understandably, using beta firmware requires tolerance of some quirks
  3. Any bumpiness in user interaction (eg - touchscreen quirks) has a disproportionate impact on user perception… hopefully appreciation for the images that Epic produces will be what leaves the most lasting impression in the end!
  4. There’s a surprising amount of latent negative sentiment towards Red out there; between harsh judgements and misinformation, it is challenging to turn people’s opinions around. Apple used to follow a strategy of providing low-cost hardware to schools to foster positive perceptions with the "workforce of the future"; this is something I hope that Red will consider pursuing with film schools.

Cheers,
Tim
 
Now THIS is what I call feedback! :cheers2:
 
C.H.Haskell said:
Thanks Tim, you can change the shutter display to degrees if you prefer to see it that way. Its in there somewhere.
Click to expand...

Thanks; good to know. I will look that up... I definitely need to spend more time learning the menus.
 
It's nice to see case notes, Tim, from your experiences.

Not everyone likes to jump onto new technology. Sometimes they are afraid of it, sometimes they just won't like it because of the brand name attached.

Overall, I've had great experiences with my X. JIGSAW has treated me well. I used it on a shoot just a few weeks ago and it performed flawlessly. The gaffer, grip, AC, DIT, Producer, and Art Director all loved the image just from the HD-SDI signal. It's getting easier to make pretty images, but it's also incredibly easy to shoot terrible images with the camera. All I want to do is get better at telling stories and have the camera translate the images for me.
 
- Tint Issue: One of the bottons on the side handle is set to Auto White Balance (maybe button C?). Go into user preferences and change it to something useful, or better yet, deactivate it because it gets bumped easily.

- Shutter Issue: The shutter speed can be displayed in degrees, which is what most film DPs prefer. Learn how to change it quickly and you can show DPs how versatile the Epic is.
 
Justin Kirchhoff said:
It's nice to see case notes, Tim, from your experiences.

Not everyone likes to jump onto new technology. Sometimes they are afraid of it, sometimes they just won't like it because of the brand name attached.

Overall, I've had great experiences with my X. JIGSAW has treated me well. I used it on a shoot just a few weeks ago and it performed flawlessly. The gaffer, grip, AC, DIT, Producer, and Art Director all loved the image just from the HD-SDI signal. It's getting easier to make pretty images, but it's also incredibly easy to shoot terrible images with the camera. All I want to do is get better at telling stories and have the camera translate the images for me.
Click to expand...

Thanks; that must have been the culprit on tint! Good to know on both counts.
 
I wish that Tint would reset to 0 when you change the white balance in the UI. (Kelvins) The first thing I do after each FW update is to re-assign button B on the side handle to something other than white balance. :) Actually I assign it to have the same behavior as the B button on the redmote.

I also change mine to show shutter angle. In 1.7.9, its Settings -> Display -> Modes -> Exposure (Time / Shutter Angle)
 
Nice.

Thanks for this TIm.

Who cares what people say.

I'm sure they will be gushing about the images to everyone else.

David
 
Thank you for the kind words on the ProLock Tim,
It seems that you landed a decent shoot with a real crew.
What was the general consensus on using still optics vs PL lenses?
How is this transition doing in your opinion?
 
Also turn off the button on the side grip that ejects media. I bump it all the time, then realised it was me bumping the eject button. Same as with the auto white balance button... that stuffs up the tint settings. turn it off.

Secret to conserve red volts, turn your fan down and turn the camera off when not shooting.... 6 batteries lasted me all day today and I still shot 2 hours of footage. When I shot film, i only shot 1.5 hours over 5 days. if I left the camera on they would last me less that 3 hours.

Great feed back by the way... that was a good post.

You will always get people hating RED.... Those people are usually the ill-informed, technically challenged, old school types. But don't worry, they will all die off soon with there silly misconceptions.

I think its funny :), I use EPIC exclusive now and I'm shooting some of the biggest TVC's in the world... with less crew and FAST!!!!. My extra saved production dollars goes into bigger sets, more talent, better visual effects.. No way I could shoot at the same speed with Alexa, I've tried and failed.

Alexa is a great camera but so 3 years ago.

Keep up the good posts, I enjoyed it. :))))
 
David Battistella said:
Mark,

How could you not comment on PLayback!

LOL

David
Click to expand...


Oh yeah... :)))))) I forgot about it for a moment. hahhahahahaaa....

So where is that playback!!!! It's mid November ?...

Actually I'm wanting the Canon mounts... I'm starting to re-think all my PL glass. Plus I have another round the world shoot to do in 3 weeks time and I think the Canon glass might get a ticket) :)
 
OptiTek said:
Thank you for the kind words on the ProLock Tim,
It seems that you landed a decent shoot with a real crew.
What was the general consensus on using still optics vs PL lenses?
How is this transition doing in your opinion?
Click to expand...

Ironically, there was a Red 18-50 available, but it wasn't used (there was word that the witness marks were questionable on this particular lens, and the still glass was faster, which suited the lighting package better).

There was a general preference expressed by the camera crew for cinema glass, being considered easier to focus and to generally have better breathing characteristics, but everyone seemed cognizant of the cost/weight trade-offs and to not mind the still glass for this project. The 1st AC did a surprisingly good job with the Nikon focus direction (we didn't have a reversing gear). Breathing was apparent, but optically the lenses all seemed to hold up well.

From my perspective, I look forward to being able to invest in some modestly priced cinema glass at some point (perhaps RPP's, Panchros, or Illuminas), but I feel like the Duclos-modified still glass is a great option from a budget perspective, from a weight perspective, and for full-frame coverage. Focus marks/range and breathing seem to be the biggest issues, and better speed/consistency would also be nice.

Many thanks for getting the ProLock sent out - it's a great piece of gear! Optitek, Duclos, and CoolLights were all key gear for this shoot!

Best,
Tim
 
Mark Toia said:
Oh yeah... :)))))) I forgot about it for a moment. hahhahahahaaa....

So where is that playback!!!! It's mid November ?...

Actually I'm wanting the Canon mounts... I'm starting to re-think all my PL glass. Plus I have another round the world shoot to do in 3 weeks time and I think the Canon glass might get a ticket) :)
Click to expand...

Mark,

If I end up with mine first, I'll loan it to you. That's not saying I don't need it. I do. :)


David
 
Tim Morten said:
There’s a surprising amount of latent negative sentiment towards Red out there
Click to expand...

Outside of RedUser and CML, I am not in a position to discuss Red with DPs, only with filmmakers (usually independent) and actors/writers who decide to shoot something on their own. Many of them have had an opportunity in the past to shoot on Red (MX and Epic) -- a short, a pilot, a commercial, etc.

I am still waiting for the day that I actually get positive feedback from a filmmaker, writer, or actor who has used Red. I have only ever had negative feedback. (In all cases, the camera was able to capture the footage, and I'm based in Los Angeles.)

In general, the primary complaints fall into two camps (note that cost and resolution never come up):

- hiccups with the camera or missing software features that are coming soon (e.g. playback)
- post with RedCode

The latter, actually getting good quality quickly from the footage after shooting, is by FAR the number one thing people give me negative feedback on. Most of the time, I think they are just relaying information they got from their editor (long transcodes, difficulty with color, etc.), but it's a constant problem. People who do not frequent RedUser have a very difficult time after shooting with Red, and as a result, the talk -- at least amongst the groups I travel in, which certainly can afford to rent a Red -- is 100% negative. :(

I don't have any suggestions, just wanted to agree with the OP that the perception is real, and at least for the circles I run is, is based on experience, not rumors. Obviously Epic can do great things in the right hands; it'd be nice if it could also do so in the hands of people who've never even heard of RedUser and aren't aware of it's quirks.

I've said in other threads that I think the C300 will be very successful with filmmakers (and I'd also include actors/writers shooting their own stuff). The above is why: an Alexa-easy path in post. Canon (like Red) makes great images, but there's so much less that can go wrong after the shoot (basically, nothing). For a filmmaker who doesn't know how to fix what's going wrong with Red anyway (read: 99% of them), the Alexa (and now C300) are an easy decision.

Best, Erich
 
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