What's this job worth?

[Marc_L]

This post has turned out to be pretty long, but please do read and respond if you can offer me some advice on getting started.

I'm being recruited by a startup which will be providing video for branding (introduction to a service provider), and 2-3 min. educational clips for web delivery, plus a little "using technology in new ways" research.

The founder is very smart, and trustworthy. I've known him for many years. He's asking me for $ figures so he can flesh out a budget to present to his investors. It's a bit of a hybrid job, so I'm not sure what to tell him; esp. since the scope of work is not yet nailed down.

I am not in the pro leagues, by any means, but know enough to pull this off, with a little help and a lot of research. I know what the limits of my knowledge are, and I know who to ask when I don't know; hence my appeal to REDusers and your wealth of knowledge. (A little flattery will get me somewhere, right?) :biggrin5:

I'm looking for help from the REDuser community with figuring out what to charge for the work described below. For now, an hourly rate is probably the best way to quote it, given that I don't know how much time will be involved yet. OTOH, if any of you have an idea of what a yearly salary would be, please let me know that too.

What I know about the work so far:

It's the opposite end of the spectrum from Digital Cinema (postage stamps vs. billboards), but I like the challenges, and figure I can learn a lot. It's sort of like learning to sail in a dinghy before moving on to big (Epic?) keel boats. ;-)

In short, it seems to be produce, light, direct and edit 3 minute videos for web delivery, using minimal, client-owned gear. Location will likely be the client's office, while sitting in front of their computer. For ease of use and consistency, we may provide some (very small) lighting gear, etc.

- develop technical specs for making recordings, much of which will, gasp, be done with webcams, built-in iSights cameras, etc. Spec recording and editing software, e.g. Camtasia, Final Cut, etc.

- develop workflow, and any needed templates to that clients can create their own videos which will probably be uploaded and edited by the service. Viewers will be "in-house" or by invitation only, so visual qualities will be secondary to getting the information delivered effectively. (Yes, I'm determined to make the lighting and other visuals as good as I can get them under the circumstances. I'll be asking for advice about this in other posts.)

- remotely coach clients before and during the "shoot".

- during the startup phase, be the main footage editor- cuts only, little or no grading.

- post edited 2-3 minute pieces to the server.

- Produce and direct (and edit?) early "branding" shoots, which will be done with proper gear and lighting, on location with the clients. Delivery will be mainly web, but should be good enough to project in a smallish ballroom should the rare occasion require it.

- Plan for a massive scale-up if the project flies. If it does, we'll be looking for a national, and with luck, an international network of shooters to create and likely edit these (branding) videos. I can't promise anything now, other than that this forum is one of the first places I'll go if and when I'm ready to start hiring. It'll be high-quality, quick and dirty. Shoot an interview quickly, put together an edit for 3-5 minutes' worth of "Here I am and this is what I do and this is why you should come to me." and upload it. Small change for for the big guys, welcome pocket money for the little guys. I'd love to be able to put the call out for this, and help people save up for some more of that spendy RED gear. ;-) But first things first...

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Another phase will include doing research on a concept for a live, client-made video(with audio) documentation process which will complement existing technology. I'm under NDA, so can't be much more specific. The essence of it is that the client will be using some type of wearble (like a Flip cam) device to create a record of what happened, and that the client's customers understand what has been said, and what it means to them.

My job will be to prove the concept, refine the idea a bit, and investigate related efforts by others which the new product might work well with. In other words, figure out what hardware and software to use, make some mock-up videos, figure out what format(s) (video, text, etc.) the final product should be, and deliver that in a way that resembles the proposed end product, with the intent of getting a grant for further research. The funders are already interested, they want to see "something real" before they cut any checks.

I'll also be wrangling information from the founder, programmer, et al, and generally managing the logistics of getting the grant proposal written. Luckily for me, others will be writing the grant itself!

Thanks to everyone for your help!

Marc

 

[Paul Russell]

I can't help you on price because here in Asia there's a different cost base.

However, having worked in creative departments of big ad agencies, I can tell you that cheap branding exercises will make the brand look cheap as well, so it's best to pay some attention to production standards and talent direction if you don't want your stuff to look like Sellavision or QVC. This higher standard takes extra man hours, and you should build that in. If you start doing jobs cheaply and the job expands, then you'll be expected to do the rest just as cheap, and this could turn into a big loss maker for you.

In short: price it so that you make a profit. Work out a system that allows you to produce it as efficiently as possible. Convince the client to put good talent in front of the lenses.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Marc - Your situation is pretty complex and there are so many things you don't have room to reveal here that giving you any, meaningful specific advice is all but impossible. It's a little like answering the question - "My friend wants me to build him a house. I know the general process and I'm a a pretty good carpenter and a fast learner. What should I do."

It sounds like a rather complex, multi-faceted and rather extended set of responsibilities. It also sounds like your friend is not too well versed on this area or conversant with all that it will take to get it done. If I were you, I would relentlessly ask questions and clarify details and be as completely clear as possible what is expected. If your friend is not willing or able to fill in the details, there's a good chance you both will be unsatisfied with what develops along the way.

I see that we are in the same geographical area. I have some decent business experience behind me and should you have any interest in sitting down over lunch to discuss this, feel free to PM me. Good luck. :cheers2:

 

[Brent J. Craig]

I work on lots of "simple branding exercises" and it is always with a (nearly) full commercial production crew and gear. As Paul said, cheap production makes the brand look cheap. Most of the successful "viral videos" you see have an ad agency and a full film crew behind them.

My advice is to aim high right from the start. If these videos are to be part of the start-up's business strategy then the last thing you want to do is under-deliver. You are in the enviable position of being able to tell them what it should really cost, rather than trying to work to an arbitrary budget set by a bean counter.

 

[Jason Comparetto]

Marc, the suggestions that have been put forth are excellent. Please be careful with bidding these types of jobs, as you can easily lose your shirt, or someone elses unfortunately. There are also budget spreadsheet templates that can help you price a job. Like Terry said, its sort of like building a house. But there is software that can help you do that, too. Of course, it helps to have built a house before, so perhaps hire a production expert that you know?

 

[Paul Russell]

And who's writing the creative?

 

[Marc_L]

Thanks everyone, for your thoughtful replies! I'm going to see if I can respond to everyone in one post.

First, I probably was not clear about the "job", by which I meant employment, first as a contractor, and perhaps ultimately as an employee stock option holder. I'm aware of the odds of a startup going big, but I figure I may as well give it a shot and see what I can learn.

The other thing I probably was not clear about is that there are 2 levels of shoot, one is desktop, low-end for the informational pieces. The other, is a "real" shoot, done by people more skilled than I am, with proper gear.

Paul, great question about the creative, I hadn't gotten that far, and may not have thought of it anyway. This is why I'm appealing to the pros here for help! The short answer is, the client will be in charge of the message, with plenty of coaching from the company folks. At minimum, I expect to be providing them with an outline of suggested material to cover.

I agree with the notion that lousy presentation materials damage the brand of the company, and have rather firmly suggested that to the founder. Sometimes he resists at first, but seems to come around eventually, esp. if he's hearing the same message from others. Still, I appreciate the backup.

Terry, The short version of my original post should be, "How much does a carpenter who does both framing and finish work and project management make?" Your assessment is pretty accurate though, I'll be wearing many hats, though I think it's time for me to take off my wannabe senior vp of branding and operations, and put on my beret and start wrangling production issues.

I have a little bit of experience shooting interviews, though I was not in charge of any of them. Last year, I worked with an excellent shooter/preditor who did wonders with a couple of reflectors and sunlight, often under very unfavorable conditions; so learned quite a bit from him. He's in Indiana, if anyone needs a talented guy in the MidWest. He has lots of experience shooting all sorts of races, adventure sports, etc.; still and motion.

It's hard to get my client/boss to nail down the details, not his strong suit, and he's still hammering out the big picture stuff, so I'll probably just start laying it out myself and present it to him. It's more likely to get done my way if I do that. ;-)

Thanks again for the ideas, keep 'em coming!

Marc

 

[Paul Russell]

Clients that write their own creative usually end up with rubbish that does more harm than good, and if you're going to spend a cent on media, it's best to make sure that your web/broadcasting is something that works for you, not against. Do some research, check out the advertising agencies who are good in your field of business, and get three of them to pitch.