Epic compression comparison

[Peter Strietmann]

Has anyone done any comparisons of the red one compression algorithms to the epic's algorithms? For instance what would be comparable to red code 36 or 42 on the epic?

Thanks, Peter.

 

[sergio arguello]

my understanding is RC42 is around 7:1

 

[Matthew J]

I saw something that 8:1 is RC36 and 10:1 was RC28. I will say that compression over 10:1 looks pretty bad. I never could see much of a difference between RC28 and RC36, but compare 8:1 to 12:1 and it's like comparing an Epic to an EX1. Of course, if you are trying to match one of those little cameras, that might be useful. A nice feature would be to have "defaults" for the compression ratios. So the default setting could be set to 9:1 in the prefs and if you switch to another frame rate that needs higher compression and then switch back, it goes back to the "default" compression.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I've shot 10:1 and 12:1 for some live event coverage so I didn't have to fumble with cards as often, or worry about running out -- no time for offloads. Anyway, at the higher compression levels, it does soften noticeably around fine details. But it still looks great for 720p and 1080p web delivery.

Old (RED One) REDCODE numbers are based off of the data rate for 12bit RAW 4K 2:1 @ 24fps., which is 288MB/s uncompressed REDCODE 28 is roughly 10:1, REDCODE 36 is roughly 8:1 and REDCODE 42 is roughly 7:1.

On the EPIC, default is 8:1 and it seems to be a great setting for most everything. I will kick it up to 5:1 if I want to be sure there's no compromises and if I have the media and additional storage capacity to deal with it. Keep in mind that even if you were to shoot the same frame size on EPIC compared to a RED One, the files will be larger -- EPIC is 16bit and therefore transports 33% more data per pixel.

 

[Peter Strietmann]

Thanks everyone this is very helpful.


Best, Peter

 

[David Rasberry]

Does bit depth vary with higher compression ratios or is it always 16 bit? The specs say 12bit and 16bit, so I was wondering how this is set.

 

[Mark Andersen]

I saw something that 8:1 is RC36 and 10:1 was RC28. I will say that compression over 10:1 looks pretty bad. I never could see much of a difference between RC28 and RC36, but compare 8:1 to 12:1 and it's like comparing an Epic to an EX1. Of course, if you are trying to match one of those little cameras, that might be useful. A nice feature would be to have "defaults" for the compression ratios. So the default setting could be set to 9:1 in the prefs and if you switch to another frame rate that needs higher compression and then switch back, it goes back to the "default" compression.

Yes. This would be great, or say you program an optimal compression, say 5:1 and program the camera to always use the lowest compression available up to 5:1 so it switches automatically when you move between frame rates and resolutions.

 

[Antonio Ribeiro]

Great thread guys. This is crucial for me as well, specially since I am acquiring a Scarlet and would probably need to use the camera in conjunction with other footage at some point. I have also installed KataData on my iphone and wonder if we can somehow find an equivalent in terms of file size versus different levels of compression.

For example, a 64GB SS Card, could in theory store up to 249.66 minutes of footage from a Sony EX1/EX3. You can get 250.45 minutes in the same card, with the Red Epic on a 13:1 compression, shooting 2K 2:4:1. But which of the two compression codecs has higher quality?

I am very curious to find out whether the Epic footage would be superior to the LongGop codec of Sony. With the Scarlet being a more accessible camera in terms of price, these are the sort of questions I imagine a lot of people will ber asking themselves.

 

[Javier Lomas]

I think there is a data error

I think there is a data error

Jeff Said Redcode 28 is equivalent to 288 MB / s but I think 28 Redcode is equal to 28MB / s = 288Mb / s. 1Megabyte = 8 Megabits. I created a table that may be correct but someone should confirm Red.

link

Sorry my english is zero.

 

[Anders Holck]

Jeff Said Redcode 28 is equivalent to 288 MB / s but I think 28 Redcode is equal to 28MB / s = 288Mb / s. 1Megabyte = 8 Megabits.

actually he didn't. He just missed a punctuation or colon:

Old (RED One) REDCODE numbers are based off of the data rate for 12bit RAW 4K 2:1 @ 24fps., which is 288MB/s uncompressed: REDCODE 28 is roughly 10:1, REDCODE 36 is roughly 8:1 and REDCODE 42 is roughly 7:1.

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

Keep in mind when using HDRx and say 48FPS the max frame rate at 5K (2:1) is 12:1 compression. That eats up a lot of space on a 128GB card very quickly. But so does 6:1 at 24FPS with HDRx. Images are fantastic, but you need to be prepared to offload much faster and have sufficient cards to keep up with your day, especially as we did when we shot 2 cameras on my feature this past September.

It's been said many times before 7:1 was the equivalent of RC42 but of course there's different bit depth compared to R1MX.

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

Before we began shooting Spiderman Schwartzman and I sat down with Jim and Deanan and talked about what compression to use. We thought we would shoot 3:1. Jim said we would be crazy to waste storage space because no one would be able to discern a difference between 3:1 and 5:1. We went 5:1 and never looked back. Loved it....

 

[Daniel Soderberg]

I've shot 10:1 and 12:1 for some live event coverage so I didn't have to fumble with cards as often, or worry about running out -- no time for offloads. Anyway, at the higher compression levels, it does soften noticeably around fine details. But it still looks great for 720p and 1080p web delivery.

Old (RED One) REDCODE numbers are based off of the data rate for 12bit RAW 4K 2:1 @ 24fps., which is 288MB/s uncompressed REDCODE 28 is roughly 10:1, REDCODE 36 is roughly 8:1 and REDCODE 42 is roughly 7:1.

On the EPIC, default is 8:1 and it seems to be a great setting for most everything. I will kick it up to 5:1 if I want to be sure there's no compromises and if I have the media and additional storage capacity to deal with it. Keep in mind that even if you were to shoot the same frame size on EPIC compared to a RED One, the files will be larger -- EPIC is 16bit and therefore transports 33% more data per pixel.

So Scarlet's bit rate is 55 MB/s as shown on the chart recently released... What are the bit rates for Red One MX and Epic?