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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

End of Mac Pro???

In Steve Jobs's biography the author had mentioned, that for a short while Steve was toying with an idea of licensing Mac OS to HP. Eventually he cooled off to that idea and ultimately, it didn't happen. So, why do I even mention this? From that example it is obvious, that even Steve wasn't completely agains the idea of Mac OS licensing to a selected, high end hardware manufacturer. Lots of time had past since, but I would argue, that today the idea of licensing OS to a select group of manufacturers may be not so much off base after all. The biggest reason for it, is the Apple store. With the use of the Apple store distribution model of prior software approval, it is very easy for Apple to exercise the necessary quality control, that users are so accustom. Narrowing down the selection of qualified hardware makers will ensure continuity of real "Mac experience".
Right now OSX is, what, $30? It is so inexpensive, because you can only use it with the Mac hardware. On the "foreign" hardware Apple could, conceivably, charge half of Windows OS price and still make a ton of cash. At some point the new CEO, Tim Cook, will need to step out of the Steve's shadow. What better way of doing it, than finally opening Mac OSX to the select, high end manufacturers? And in the process, Apple and Steve would give Microsoft an ultimate finger!
Apple hardware is good, but not THAT good. I'd buy a proper Mac on a BOXX computer in a heartbeat.
 
Serves as a reminder that new lower cost kit RED, SONY and Alexa rely on third party suppliers to create the end to end solutions, unlike film and the TV serial digital chain where there is confidence that the whole system would work, albeit at exorbitant price compared to a laptop.
One hopes this will drive camera companies to make their own "post shooting processing hardware". RED is halfway down this road with its excellent range of software and it must know a thing or two about transferring data at high speed.....

When Apple entered the fray with Final Cut pro in 1999 the question asked from Avid was "are Apple in the broadcast sector for the long term?" especially since Apple had bought the software from Macromedia as a defensive move.

I'd suggest that with the number of DSLRs shooting video that mac laptops will continue to cater for 2k video.


Mike Brennan
 
jake blackstone said:
In Steve Jobs's biography the author had mentioned, that for a short while Steve was toying with an idea of licensing Mac OS to HP. Eventually he cooled off to that idea and ultimately, it didn't happen. So, why do I even mention this? From that example it is obvious, that even Steve wasn't completely agains the idea of Mac OS licensing to a selected, high end hardware manufacturer. Lots of time had past since, but I would argue, that today the idea of licensing OS to a select group of manufacturers may be not so much off base after all. The biggest reason for it, is the Apple store. With the use of the Apple store distribution model of prior software approval, it is very easy for Apple to exercise the necessary quality control, that users are so accustom. Narrowing down the selection of qualified hardware makers will ensure continuity of real "Mac experience".
Right now OSX is, what, $30? It is so inexpensive, because you can only use it with the Mac hardware. On the "foreign" hardware Apple could, conceivably, charge half of Windows OS price and still make a ton of cash. At some point the new CEO, Tim Cook, will need to step out of the Steve's shadow. What better way of doing it, than finally opening Mac OSX to the select, high end manufacturers? And in the process, Apple and Steve would give Microsoft an ultimate finger!
Apple hardware is good, but not THAT good. I'd buy a proper Mac on a BOXX computer in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...

I agree what most of your post, but $30 is just a token amount. The real cost comes with the Apple Tax. Looking at it from Apple's point of view, we know from tear-down cost analyses that Apple's gross margins are approx 20% higher than HP or Dell. (It might even be more in some cases - the $900 HP Pavilion has curiously identical specs to the $1800 Macbook Pro. Of course, the MBP is better built, has a better screen, battery touchpad and keyboard - but how much more do those cost? Surely not more than a couple of hundred dollars.) That is a good $250 or so even for the entry level notebooks. Charging anything substantially lesser would mean these qualified hardware makers will offer the same quality and experience as Macbooks for much lesser. With Windows selling for under $100 to OEMs, I am not sure this is a lucrative market for Apple. It is, but just not as much as selling Macs.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
You're right, Gunleik... And this could come true as others are saying...

Another thing we have to consider is that now with Jobs being gone, it's no longer his vision shaping the future of Apple. Steve was very adamant about doing things his way, but he would at least acknowledge the Pro userbase much of the time. In one of his recent comments on where he sees the Mac in the market, he said that he wants the Mac to be an integral part of all media, from creation to consumption. He even referenced the Mac Pro in that line of commentary. Of course, that was close to two years ago at this point now and a lot can change. What I'm worried about is that with Steve no longer at the helm, Apple my lose sight of the Pro users once and for all. I never thought it could happen myself, but then they delivered FCPX. Ultimately, FCPX will be a good product and will serve a pro user base... It is not there yet.

The Mac line-up is pretty nice as it is, but they definitely need a top end workstation. There's a lot of us who buy Macs because we like the OS and having dual Xeon CPUs under the hood. If they kill the Mac Pro, the prospects of myself continuing to buy Apple systems begins to really look weak. I'm an old-school Unix/Irix guy... SGI, Sun, etc.. The Mac, especially the Mac Pro, is still a solid successor to that vein of computer ideology. Linux is too, and I run some Linux systems, but it's not the same thing. Not the best tool for certain tasks. Lacks mainstream codec support, among other things. I'll keep a Macbook Pro and an iMac around to satisfy the need for certain things and to continue iOS development, that sort of stuff... But for my primary workstation where I'm often waiting on CPU intensive tasks, even with 24 threads on 12 cores across 2 CPUs grinding away, there's just no way an iMac is going to cut it. Much like their castration of the 15" Macbook Pro, by removing the ExpressCard slot, I don't think Apple may fully understand the ramifications of what may happen until after they kill a certain product. They at least addressed the ExpressCard issue and agreed they made the wrong decision... But they also never put it back -- presumably because it would've taken more design effort and would have required deviation from their already established path. That and even at the time they killed it on the 15" MBP, they already had Thunderbolt (or Lightpeak, as it was) on their roadmap.

We'll see what happens... But if Apple decides to kill the Mac Pro, it won't be because it's a loss or a dead platform. It's thriving and has enjoyed growing sales over the last three consecutive revisions. If they kill it, it's because it no longer fits within their own ecosystem of iProducts.
Click to expand...

Hi Jeff,

In any case, they better get out of silence soon :)

The Pro guys are getting nervous, and beginning to look at other options.

Many already did the move from FCP to AVID.

Nobody wants to be left alone at the end of the road without a single road sign.


Antoine
 
Antoine Fabi said:
Hi Jeff,

In any case, they better get out of silence soon :)

The Pro guys are getting nervous, and beginning to look at other options.

Many already did the move from FCP to AVID.

Nobody wants to be left alone at the end of the road without a single road sign.


Antoine
Click to expand...

Premier I think not Avid. But it really depends on what you are doing and your workflow.
 
jake blackstone said:
Apple hardware is good, but not THAT good. I'd buy a proper Mac on a BOXX computer in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...

That would seriously rock. BOXX (or some other boutique PC company) getting a license to build OSX Workstations only. Not laptops, not all-in-ones, just desktop workstations. Apple wouldn't be in charge of service, BOXX would be. Available only online, not at the Apple retail stores. And it wouldn't be a hackintosh.

I'd buy one in a heartbeat as well.
 
If Apple quits the Mac Pro, I'm going back into the high-end workstation business.... If for no reason other than to build systems that I want to use.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
If Apple quits the Mac Pro, I'm going back into the high-end workstation business.... If for no reason other than to build systems that I want to use.
Click to expand...

Joint venture with RED and other Hollywood market makers and there is a solid business plan there. Rack mount / raw performance and reliability
 
if that happens, you got one customer here!

Jeff Kilgroe said:
If Apple quits the Mac Pro, I'm going back into the high-end workstation business.... If for no reason other than to build systems that I want to use.
Click to expand...
 
Ultimately it will depend on sales figures, If Apple does end up killing the Mac Pro it will be because they see declining numbers and will probably draw the conclusion that Pro users are migrating to macbook pros exclusively and no longer want Mac Pros, after all if it was really that important they would still be buying them right?
I doubt it would be a sign that Apple is abandoning the Pro market because "Them iPhones sell so good" because the Macintosh is responsible for the content and the apps that get people to buy the iPhones in the first place.
 
Michael Brennan said:
Serves as a reminder that new lower cost kit RED, SONY and Alexa rely on third party suppliers to create the end to end solutions, unlike film and the TV serial digital chain where there is confidence that the whole system would work, albeit at exorbitant price compared to a laptop.
One hopes this will drive camera companies to make their own "post shooting processing hardware". RED is halfway down this road with its excellent range of software and it must know a thing or two about transferring data at high speed.....

Mike Brennan
Click to expand...

Why create your own "Post shooting processing hardware" when x86 PCs have been around for 20 years and will be around for at least another 20 years. Just because Apple is an unpredictable nutter doesn't mean the rest of the computer industry is. Microsoft is more than happy to telegraph their moves for the next decade. Linux is open and modifiable to suit your needs whatever those might be.

If Apple discontinues the Mac Pro a lot of people will learn a valuable lesson in vendor lock-in. The lesson isn't that you can't rely on PCs, it's that you shouldn't rely on a single PC manufacturer. It would be 100x worse if we were relying on RED, Sony or Arri for our post production hardware. "Oh you have an Alexa, sorry this is a RED editing system. Oh you have a Sony camera, sorry our editing house is a RED hardware company. " I too desperately wish for a world where a project shot on both RED and Film would require two different computers to edit. That sounds awesome!

http://boxxtech.com/
 
Craig W. Bickerstaff said:
Ultimately it will depend on sales figures, If Apple does end up killing the Mac Pro it will be because they see declining numbers and will probably draw the conclusion that Pro users are migrating to macbook pros exclusively and no longer want Mac Pros, after all if it was really that important they would still be buying them right?
I doubt it would be a sign that Apple is abandoning the Pro market because "Them iPhones sell so good" because the Macintosh is responsible for the content and the apps that get people to buy the iPhones in the first place.
Click to expand...

Focus is believed by some (including Red) to be a key factor. Red briefly split their focus by targeting a product at the consumer/prosumer market, but then thought the better of it. Apple seems to be making a similar choice to focus, but on the consumer market rather than the pro market. All of which to say that this may not simply be about $$ (Red could obviously have made a mint in the consumer market) - it may be more about focus.

- Tim
 
Mark Phelan said:
If true, then I want a RED Pro tower dedicated to the production environment. A specialized system that would have the rocket built-in along with all the other whiz-bang features we need. That I'd buy.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you on that one.
 
Get PC with Windows 7. The most pefect machine for creative inviduals. You have the most power and control you can get with any computer that can run needed softwares. PC gives you the freedom Apple doesn't have.
 
other than Final Cut and ProRes, Who cares about the maker of an Intel box? More importantl, is your video card and harddrives - and for me, I love Adobe products and plug-ins for them. Plus Resolve is coming to the PC. I honestly don't see much of a difference.
 
If Apple decides to discontinue the Mac Pro series and then separates OSX from their hardware sales, users will be able to make an educated choice of hardware, OS and software. The fact of the matter- all of today's 3 main operating systems- OSX, LINUX and WIN run on the same hardware. I would love to be able to choose my own hardware. No one will ever will have to worry about inferior GPU support on a Mac or any other craziness, that Apple tends to go through periodically. Personally, I feel it will be a relief not to use Mac Pro hardware anymore...
 
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