I'm editing a video for internet delivery and will need to grade it soon. This is my first time working with log footage (redcode log) and I'm not sure whether or not I should be applying an LUT or just grading it to how it should look by applying aggressive contrast. It's kind of annoying digging out nice tonality in the midtones with such a low contrast image and I find I need to turn saturation way up. I'm aware that this is a beginner's question, but I've searched a bit here and on google and haven't had much luck. I'm hoping I'm okay just grading it so it looks good and scopes are kosher... Thanks!
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Redlog Film LUT for Color?
- Thread starter Matt W.
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David Wilson
Well-known member
Mike - excellent explanation. Thank you enormously.
- Thread starter
- #4
Thanks. It's kind of a pain working with log footage since the tiniest shift to the color wheels changes the image dramatically (since it's so low contrast to start with), but there is a lot of flexibility, I guess.
So I'm okay turning saturation way up? I've got it at like 1.4 in my primary in, which is way more than I'd normally dare use, but it looks fine.
So I'm okay turning saturation way up? I've got it at like 1.4 in my primary in, which is way more than I'd normally dare use, but it looks fine.
Paul Provost
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Matt
try using your primary luma curve to get back to linear and use your secondary room tab 1 to do your primary and on from there.
are you sending r3d to color? if so you can switch out of log in the red tab to something more familiar like redcolor2 / redgamma2.
I wonder what would happen if you downloaded and installed the Technicolor cinestyle .mga lut for color or the tried ARRI logC to rec 709 lut? would that get you close? but there are issues with the color matix that would differ between them all.
I'm just guessing here. Im still early with my log to lin knowledge here too...
try using your primary luma curve to get back to linear and use your secondary room tab 1 to do your primary and on from there.
are you sending r3d to color? if so you can switch out of log in the red tab to something more familiar like redcolor2 / redgamma2.
I wonder what would happen if you downloaded and installed the Technicolor cinestyle .mga lut for color or the tried ARRI logC to rec 709 lut? would that get you close? but there are issues with the color matix that would differ between them all.
I'm just guessing here. Im still early with my log to lin knowledge here too...
Nick Shaw
Well-known member
It may be of interest to you that I am about to release a REDlogFilm to REDgamma version of my FCP7 LUT plugin (www.antlerpost.com/plugins). When I do so I will also be selling the LUT in other formats, including .mga for Color.
PM me if you are interested in buying a copy.
PM me if you are interested in buying a copy.
- Thread starter
- #7
Thanks, everyone. The grade is due in a couple days so I don't have time to add any additional software to our workflow, though a Color .mga seems really useful. It's basically a luxury that we're not using Magic Bullet so I'll take what I can get and do without for now.
Ultimately, I did something close to what Paul suggested. I used b camera dSLR footage as a reference and graded toward that to get back toward linear. This was a big pain. Wish I didn't have to do this. I used an s-curve in the primary in, turned up saturation to around 1.8 but with shadow saturation turned down (by contrast, the dSLR footage had saturation turned down to as low as 0.55 in the primary in to match when we did use it as a b camera). Then in the first secondary, which I applied to every redlog clip, I used the hue curves to bring orange closer to magenta and green closer to blue (I think?); anyhow this and saturation curves to bring skin tones down and everything else more saturated resulted in a pretty nice, punchy image with pleasant enough memory colors.
I don't get redlog film; it seems like a lot of trouble to get nice colors out of it, whereas other settings look pretty good to begin with. Is it too much to ask for a linear output that doesn't clip any highlight or shadow detail? The color and contrast in red's linear color spaces looks a lot closer to what I see with film and out of dSLRs... Anyhow, the footage is very flexible and the lack of noise at 800 ISO is amazing, putting the b camera to terrible shame--but the workflow is a pain. It should not be this much work to get to what amounts to a starting point for a grade. Thankfully this is a short video.
I'd like to try a .mga file in the future, but only if it corrected for color and saturation as well as gamma.
Ultimately, I did something close to what Paul suggested. I used b camera dSLR footage as a reference and graded toward that to get back toward linear. This was a big pain. Wish I didn't have to do this. I used an s-curve in the primary in, turned up saturation to around 1.8 but with shadow saturation turned down (by contrast, the dSLR footage had saturation turned down to as low as 0.55 in the primary in to match when we did use it as a b camera). Then in the first secondary, which I applied to every redlog clip, I used the hue curves to bring orange closer to magenta and green closer to blue (I think?); anyhow this and saturation curves to bring skin tones down and everything else more saturated resulted in a pretty nice, punchy image with pleasant enough memory colors.
I don't get redlog film; it seems like a lot of trouble to get nice colors out of it, whereas other settings look pretty good to begin with. Is it too much to ask for a linear output that doesn't clip any highlight or shadow detail? The color and contrast in red's linear color spaces looks a lot closer to what I see with film and out of dSLRs... Anyhow, the footage is very flexible and the lack of noise at 800 ISO is amazing, putting the b camera to terrible shame--but the workflow is a pain. It should not be this much work to get to what amounts to a starting point for a grade. Thankfully this is a short video.
I'd like to try a .mga file in the future, but only if it corrected for color and saturation as well as gamma.
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Nick Shaw
Well-known member
Then you are doing something wrong!
If you have only changed ISO, FLUT, Kelvin and Tint (changing any of the others from defaults may complicate things because some are applied after the gamma curve) you should be able to make a REDlogFilm image look EXACTLY the same as a REDgamma one with just a curve (if it is the correct curve).
My .mga LUTs do not make any changes to colour or saturation, as I do not believe they should. As I say above, a simple 1D curve can convert from REDlogFilm to REDgamma. Get ISO and white balance correct before making the REDlogFilm files, and anything else is creative grading.
I believe that once you have seen the power of grading in log, with a LUT applied downstream of the grades, you will never want to grade in "video space" again. Mike Most's blog is a very good resource to help you understand this. Other more sophisticated tools such as Baselight and Resolve, which allow you to control exactly where the LUT is applied in the processing pipeline, give more flexibility, but you can still do a lot with Color.
The colour adjustments you had to make to REDlogFilm to match it to dSLR footage sound as if they weren't "corrections" but rather what you needed to do to a RED image to make it look like a Canon one. The Canon footage has adjustments "baked in" based on what Canon thinks looks good (not what is in any absolute way "right"). RED, being RAW, by definition does not.
My REDlogFilm to REDgamma plugin for FCP 7, and the matching .mga LUT set are now ready to go on sale ($30 each, same as my LogC FCP plugin). I am just finalising the documentation and updating my website. If anybody needs them immediately, please PM me.
- Thread starter
- #9
Interesting... Does redlog film have any more highlight detail than the linear gamma settings? It certainly seems to have significantly more than the ones I've tried. But if there's a linear setting with the same amount of highlight detail (even if it's less flexible) I'll switch to using that in the future just for the sake of ease of use. Just curious. Maybe my issue is with redcolor 2. Anyhow, it all worked out and the footage holds up amazingly well. Just looking for a simpler workflow in the future.
Nick Shaw
Well-known member
For anybody who is interested, my REDlogFilm plugin for FCP 7, and my matching Color LUTs are now available to buy on my website.