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Low Contrast / Desaturated Image on Epic Monitor

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Dave Edsall

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I've noticed that on the Epic - M, the image tends to look low contrast and desaturated. I notice it particularly on the RED 5" Touchscreen but I also see it on the HD-SDI feed although not as much. I check to make sure we are in RedGamma2 and not monitoring RAW. All of the look settings are at their presets / factory defaults. When we look at the footage on a DaVinci Resolve we are able to make the image look fine, I only notice it when I'm looking at the monitor on set. The colors just seem muted for some reason. Has anyone else experienced this or am I just crazy?

I have another Epic shoot on Friday so I will investigate further then.

Any help or tips would be appreciated.

Thanks,

DE
 
Desat

Desat

Hi,
We are having the same issue even with REDGAMMA2...can someone chip in with some solution...
Thanks
Harcharan
 
REDcolor2/REDgamma2 are a bit desaturated and lower contrast so it's a good starting point for grading.
(it's easier to add saturation and contrast rather than take it away).
If you want a punchier image on camera, I'd recommend turning up saturation and contrast for monitoring.
 
Deanan said:
If you want a punchier image on camera, I'd recommend turning up saturation and contrast for monitoring.
Click to expand...

Deanan,

I don't think that you mean changing the monitors themselves but rather the camera look file.

Could this work as "best practivces on set".


I suggest that the monitor should be used as a reference and not altered after being properly set up with color bars. All of my years in post taught me to set my audio and video as a referene. Every day before I started editing, I set my video and audio monitors. This way I could "catch" anything that was out of the ordinary, etc.

Maybe a "monitoring look file" could be created instead of messing with onset monitors (which should be calibrated at the start of each shooting day and left alone).

Suggested steps could be:

1. Set all of your onset monitors acording to color bars being generated at the camera. (make them equal including those at the DIT station)
2. Create a look file based on REDCOLOR 2 and REDGAMMA 2 and call it (monitoring)
3. shoot with the look file knowing that the camera is capturing the RAW.
4. Check RAW images to ensure highlights are being protected, etc.

INthis way, if a shot is under, over, to dull or too colorful, then you know it is happening at the camera and not at the monitoring end.
Monitoring needs to be a reference, not just (how it should look).

respectfully,

David
 
Noticed the same thing which can be a bit deceiving when you are setting up lights. After upping the contrast and saturation a bit it looks much more like what you see in real life.
 
If I want or need saturated, shiny images on set, i add some saturation, add some contrast and reduce brightness in lookmenu right in cam. It's not an issue at all. You can have every look right on your epic, just use the possibilitys RED gave to you.
 
REDGamma2 is a balance between: viewable image, the ability to see a wide dynamic range like in a log image, to have an image that's a good starting point for grading.

If you want a more oomphed image in camera I use metadata settings of:

saturation=1.3,
contrast=0.5

I'd not grade from this image though.... I'd take it back to defaults for grading, or even go to REDLogFilm depending on the look I'm after.

Graeme
 
This is the whole point lads - like Graeme said - metadata. It's not baked in. Make it look like whatever you want on set. As long as you put the histogram in the right place (think balanced negative) it's all good. Do whatever you want later. Beauty of RED.

Tim Eaton
 
Yeah dude.

We all know this.

And it's pretty much what everyone has said.

Show a client a loc C or redligfilm image on set and they will have a shit.

There is also a line between understanding the look and the RAW image the camera is capturing. Baking in the wrong look without understanding the RAW capture can actually fuck up the raw capture.

You need both.
 
Didn't sound like the OP knew it David. Just trying to be helpful.

I know you know this, but just to press the point a bit further for others who may not - You can't "bake in the wrong look," as you say. Looks don't get baked in. You can set the look to ultra high contrast green, cyan, and blue, or anything else you like. Has no effect on the RAW as long as the histogram is in the right place. Could have a drastic effect in mood on the set, but none on RAW.

Tim
 
Tim

I agree on your point about the op.

My point is this.

A look gets set.

The DP banks on that look. Never goes back to view raw when recording.

So here is an example. The look is set at 1280iso the blacks are a bit crushed, the look is over saturated. Etc.

In this scenario you run the risk (only if trusting the monitor and lighting by the monitor) which a lot of people do actually do on set. You then actually run the risk of underexposuing or shooting a think digital histogram (exposing to the left instead of the right) because it "looks right" on the monitor.

If you think this has not happened on plenty if red shoots with dos coming from hd tape land then you are mistaken.

This is why I was saying you need too monitor the raw (what you are actually getting) while giving up an ok image for the monitors (the metadata images) which is what the file "could look like" and has little to do with exposure and how you "rate" the camera.

David

Mistakes like underexposing can happen when the looks are set beyond what Graeme suggested.
I think we pretty much agree.
 
What David said is also what I usually experience on set. I can't count the number of times I have to say "it's not a good idea to judge exposure using the monitor"...
 
So increase Saturation and Contrast in order to bring RedGamma2 into a closer look for Client/Agency? I'll try that next time.
 
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