EPIC or RED ONE

[Eric J Kosinski]

Thanks to all that helped with the info in another post! Now my main decision is between Red One or Epis S (based on assuming current specs). I don't think I can afford a production Epic X or M, so that leaves me waiting on the EPIC S or the RED ONE. I can wait a bit as I mainly only need DSLR quality for my current shoots.

I'm wondering if the quality of a RED ONE will be better than the new EPIC S ? What image will look better on the big screen, quality, resolution, etc ?

Finally will and does the RED ONE still hold value on the feature film market for independents, larger projects etc, or is everyone looking for an Epic now? I don't want the RED ONE To be useless in terms of what people want? I want to sell myself as an owner operator and am wondering if RED ONE looks dated (and out of the hype) at this point?

 

[Mike Halper]

I don't think the Red One will appear useless, however someone with an Epic will probably draw more attention than someone with a Red One, assuming the rest of your package is good enough.

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

I don't think the Red One will appear useless, however someone with an Epic will probably draw more attention than someone with a Red One, assuming the rest of your package is good enough.

Cool. But are we still talking Epic S. Not x or m

 

[John Bannister]

Finally will and does the RED ONE still hold value on the feature film market for independents, larger projects etc, or is everyone looking for an Epic now? I don't want the RED ONE To be useless in terms of what people want? I want to sell myself as an owner operator and am wondering if RED ONE looks dated (and out of the hype) at this point?

...just take a look at what has been shot and is still being shot on Red Ones, check out "shot on Red" at red.com that should answer your question.

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

...just take a look at what has been shot and is still being shot on Red Ones, check out "shot on Red" at red.com that should answer your question.

No doubt red one still kicks ass but will the epics cause a major loss of interest in the red one for rental etc in your opinions

 

[Mike Halper]

Cool. But are we still talking Epic S. Not x or m

No doubt red one still kicks ass but will the epics cause a major loss of interest in the red one for rental etc in your opinions

I'd say we're talking Red One vs. Epic in general. No one knows for sure what the actual feature set and capabilities of Epic-S will be. As Jim Jannard has stated many times, everything is subject to change. Putting Epic-X and Epic-M against a Red One, are they better? Sure, but they are more expensive to buy and thus more expensive to rent. As John said above, there's still many, many movies and other productions still being shot on the Red One and Epic-M has been shipping and available for a while now. Epic-S will probably be a slightly lesser camera than Epic-X and Epic-S. So that should tell you that the Red One is still fully capable and probably not really going anywhere very soon.

All that said, look at the cost difference between what you'd want for a Red One package and what you want for an Epic package and decide what works best for you. Of course you said you're looking at Epic-S so you'll have to wait to see what happens when that is finally announced and available. It's too early right now. This is all really just speculation.

 

[Mark Phelan]

No doubt red one still kicks ass but will the epics cause a major loss of interest in the red one for rental etc in your opinions

Human nature being what it is, the majority will always gravitate towards whatever the latest, greatest gizmo is. The R1 will have a lower rental rate compared to the Epic, and that will make it valuable to many. The camera still is head and shoulders above virtually every other camera on the market today and is built like a tank. You need to ask yourself how much you are willing to spend on getting the results you desire. Shooting 4K is great because of many benefits mentioned, well pretty much everywhere. The Epic is going to have a big price tag for someone just starting, which makes an R1 look very good. Just because there is going to be a rush to sell R1 cameras in the near term because some are upgrading to Epic, doesn't make the camera a dog, much like buying a used Ferrari. It'll still outrun 99% of all cars on the road, so do you need the 2012 model or will a 2010 work just as well for you, letting you save some money? You win either way. Just don't fall into the trap of a kit car, that looks like the real thing, but doesn't have the horsepower to back it up.

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

Human nature being what it is, the majority will always gravitate towards whatever the latest, greatest gizmo is. The R1 will have a lower rental rate compared to the Epic, and that will make it valuable to many. The camera still is head and shoulders above virtually every other camera on the market today and is built like a tank. You need to ask yourself how much you are willing to spend on getting the results you desire. Shooting 4K is great because of many benefits mentioned, well pretty much everywhere. The Epic is going to have a big price tag for someone just starting, which makes an R1 look very good. Just because there is going to be a rush to sell R1 cameras in the near term because some are upgrading to Epic, doesn't make the camera a dog, much like buying a used Ferrari. It'll still outrun 99% of all cars on the road, so do you need the 2012 model or will a 2010 work just as well for you, letting you save some money? You win either way. Just don't fall into the trap of a kit car, that looks like the real thing, but doesn't have the horsepower to back it up.

very good point.

 

[George Butterfield]

For many lighting situations you cannot tell the difference between a RED ONE MX or an EPIC. Maybe the dragon chip will fit in a RED ONE, then a lot of people may think that is the best setup, again if you have lighting control. If you write and produce your own scripts you can easily match an Epic with a RED ONE.

 

[RivaiC]

Hi George

I think yes you can tell. Because in camera, RED is using RED Gamma while EPIC allows you to choose RED Gamma2 and RLF.

That is actually a huge different on how the highligh rolls off and how it handle blacks.

Rivai

 

[Clint Lealos]

Hi George

I think yes you can tell. Because in camera, RED is using RED Gamma while EPIC allows you to choose RED Gamma2 and RLF.

That is actually a huge different on how the highligh rolls off and how it handle blacks.

Rivai

True. But that is only for monitoring purposes. You can always switch Red One footage to RedGamm2 or RedLogFilm in Redcine X. The camera is always recording RAW files.

 

[Eston Diaz]

My plan is to wait, cause thats all I can do.

But.. wait to see what they come out with Epic/Scarlett (fixed or Cinema) and of course price.

If the price is similar to that of an R1 but it still falls within 3k vs 4k. I'm going with (4k) the R1.

If the price is close.

 

[Bob Minervini]

Oh... I posted in the other thread. Anyway my advice was to go EpicX all the way. or S as matter of facts.

 

[RivaiC]

True. But that is only for monitoring purposes. You can always switch Red One footage to RedGamm2 or RedLogFilm in Redcine X. The camera is always recording RAW files.

Yes sure...for those people who knows post. But i believe for those involve only in production that has minimum knowledge on what is going on with the R3D, they can see huge differences

Rivai

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

Yes sure...for those people who knows post. But i believe for those involve only in production that has minimum knowledge on what is going on with the R3D, they can see huge differences

Rivai

I was able to find a post on vimeo.com last night which compared 6 cameras including the RED ONE vs several including the Alexa, 35mm film, etc. It was very clear that the RED had an obvious advantage in resolution when zoomed in to 200%. It was a major difference that was hard to tell at normal viewing. This must be a huge advantage for future higher resolution projectors.

 

[George Butterfield]

That is actually a huge different on how the highligh rolls off and how it handle blacks.

But I've got these lightbulb thingys, that can be used to control gamma on 90% of my setups.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

I was able to find a post on vimeo.com last night which compared 6 cameras including the RED ONE vs several including the Alexa, 35mm film, etc. It was very clear that the RED had an obvious advantage in resolution when zoomed in to 200%. It was a major difference that was hard to tell at normal viewing. This must be a huge advantage for future higher resolution projectors.

Not just for that, but for compositing and reframing now in 1080p output jobs.

 

[RivaiC]

But I've got these lightbulb thingys, that can be used to control gamma on 90% of my setups.

Can you clarify this further ? I dont quite understand by"lightbulb thingys" controlling gamma ?

Thanks
Rivai

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

Not just for that, but for compositing and reframing now in 1080p output jobs.

Great point. Scaling into 2K footage is a nightmare with resolution/quality loss. Good to know the RED can easily handle that.

 

[Mike Halper]

Yes sure...for those people who knows post. But i believe for those involve only in production that has minimum knowledge on what is going on with the R3D, they can see huge differences

Rivai

Anything you shoot on the Red should go through someone who knows the post process, otherwise what's the point in shooting RAW? So in that case it doesn't matter because your final output should be with RedGamma2 or RegLogFilm. Without doing that you're not getting the full capability of the Red cameras and the RAW format. That's why Red created RedCine-X and RedCine-X Pro.