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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Steve Jobs...

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Why has this become a debate? It was on the right track to be a great thread, but now reading it has become aggravating.. I know this is a free country and we have the right to free speech, but seriously? Here? In this thread? Sheesh.. Depressing..
 
And yet with Mr. Jobs gone, Apple will carry on, will the same be said about RED?
Has Jim a successor in mind, or does the RED camera live and die with him?
 
Jarred is me but with more energy... :-)

Jim
 
I strongly believe that using Apple led me to be in the cinema field, at the age of 46 (4 years ago).
 
Jim, very well said. It's what I said before. As technological wonders of today all eventually rust and blow away in the wind, it's the spirit of the visionary that makes it's timeless mark on mankind. Some on this post are too young to remember but I will say that the overused corporate logo of 'magic' once really did live and apply and that was with the works of Walt Disney and the nine old men. And Steve Jobs stands shoulder to shoulder on the same stage. I was very lucky to live in both eras. Let them be an inspiration to all creative souls.
 
David Rasberry said:
Ideas are a dime a dozen. It is the drive, vision, and ability to inspire and manage people to bring useful ideas to fruition that is rare. To create products that change whole industries, and even the culture of a society itself takes many intelligent skilled people, but without visionary leadership it never happens. Hats off to Jobs, he is one of the giants.
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I commonly find people that think ideas are a dime a dozen, but people with good well worked ideas are very rare, not instantaneously like some. I find most intelligent people just can't do it without a lot of effort at least. This is what Steve has successfully done, as you point out, managed the idea with correct focus, which most don't seem able to achieve either.

An interesting illustration of what you are talking,about is a previouse music industry changing product, the Sony Walkman. The Sony head kept demanding his engineers make the product smaller. They came in one day and protested they could not make it any smaller. The head, I forget his name, filled a bucket of water and put the model in it, and air bubbles came out showing that indeed space was left to make it smaller. Very inspirational, Imagine working for somebody like that. Love these stories.

Eduardo Ruiz said:
I sure have great respect for Steve Jobs, but I think true visionaries really don't care about patents and stock shares too much.
True visionaries like Nikola Tesla (radio, radar, alternate current AC, AC motor, plasma lamp) and Santos Dumont (first dirigible and first airplane - not the Wright Brothers - please research) left EVERYTHING for humankind. Tesla wanted that electricity should be free to everybody, and Dumont never had a patent, he left a letter stating that his inventions was not for him to profit, but for humankind.
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Hmm, I want to set up a free third world communications network as part of my computer platform for the third world. Tesla from memory made a fair bit with GE. The fact is with the money you can do much more. Maybe one day people will view great people's success in this way.

People tend to disrespect free things, and even fight against them so that a lifetime could be spent on so little.

Jannard said:
I'm quite sure that the best product companies were founded by benevolent dictator/visionaries. What tends to happen is that committees and focus groups somehow take over after time. That happened at Apple under Sculley's rule. Fortunately, Jobs was able to step back in and do it all over again 14 years ago.

Jim
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Sculley. :( One of the few successful things I remember from that time was the Newton strong arm edition (ironic power pc is mostly dead, and arm that they should have used instead the industry is moving towards for PC and maybe Mac) and iBook. When Steve came both died, but both were right. Still Steve did a wonderful job. What people haven't really covered, is he brought style and charm aswell.

I always wanted to take my ideas forwards to form profitable companies as benevolences.

Terry VerHaar said:
There is a local story about Steve Jobs that few know but I was in a good position to judge as completely accurate:

A couple of decades ago, Mr. Jobs walked into a local high-end bicycle shop and purchased the very high end Campagnolo crank set that was on display in the window. Anyone who knows the history of Campagnolo, the Italian company that for many decades has set the standard for high quality bicycle components, both functionally and aethestically, can appreciate what a guy like Steve Jobs was thinking. He was not known to be a cyclist and, in fact, he apparently intended just to hang the beautifully designed alloy component on his wall as something of a piece of art. To him, perhaps t was worth several hundred dollars to acquire this perfect and simple reminder of the power of design.

Steve Jobs is mercurial, a perfectionist, a hard taskmaster. He is opinionated, hard driving and, from all accounts, not particularly humble. But , more than anything else, he is indisputably a visionary and a business genius. You don't have to like him or his products but he is a man to be respected, and honored for all that he has contributed to the technology field.

I wish him the best as he goes forward and hope that this relaxing of his duties will translate to improved health and a chance for some time to appreciate the fruits of his genius and hard work.
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I understand this completely, to me design is an art form, my designs have a practical beauty of form and function, an overtly invertly beauty and charm. That you may not notice until you actually use it, vitally important as with the i products, in ergonomics and consumer devices, of course wrapped in further beauty ;) . If I was very rich I could imagine hanging devices like this not just as beauty, but as inspiration.

My doctor has encouraged me to buy a book called "Genius Genes" that covers the contribution of people with Aspergers to society, to get an idea of others (pity, I was hoping it was going to be an discussion of the genetic research on the subject). Many of the attributes, negative included, above apply to great names in history. I just find the negative side unreasonable. I can appreciate why some of these things are, most prople are not bright and purposely work at odds to them, and leading to.dominating personality traits etc. For instance, arrogant people usually act like the definition of humblness is falling over and automatically agreeing/following everything they say, "yes sir, how high sir" without reason just for ego (even though they don't realise it and think they are the ones being humble). I remember, it was Bill Gates, I think, that would debate with employees when they tried to tell him things. I can understand this, it is not a matter of just go along with everything you say, convince me, how can we get around this, checking out what is the actual truth as most people are just mistaken in dome aspect and opinionated. There is a lot of lack of respect for accuracy, fact and truth, and it is about truth.

Jeff Coatney said:
The prime lesson of Steve Jobs: Be your own customer. Anyone who follows that mantra can't lose. Just on a statistical basis alone you're guaranteed to hit a home run with others like you. In a world of 6 billion people, there could be lots of customers just like you.

Another Steve Jobs lesson: Innovate towards simplicity not complexity.

Another huge Steve Jobs lesson: Its never about the product as much as it is about your relationship with the product.
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True, this is a path to good design, and not just yourself, but how other customers will relate to it. I have worked on simplifying some very complex problems the computer industry has struggled with for many years. Most people do not have a clue in design, including most with an opinion. These things are not Steve exclusive but I think probably rare enough to include in text books. You sell people a product, not just a piece of.plastic and metal parts.

David Dennis said:
Elsie, I strongly suspect you are sitting in front of a Windows PC right now. That Windows PC has a graphical user interface. That interface was largely copied from the Macintosh, created by Steve. That Windows PC has a flat-panel monitor. Steve Jobs pioneered the switch to flat panel technology while most companies were stuck with CRTs. That Windows PC has USB ports. Steve's iMac was the first computer to rely entirely on USB, advancing the adoption of that standard by years.
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As per previouse reply.

Justin marx said:
Why has this become a debate? It was on the right track to be a great thread, but now reading it has become aggravating.. I know this is a free country and we have the right to free speech, but seriously? Here? In this thread? Sheesh.. Depressing..
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Because somethings that were said were overdone or even wrong, an offense, and by people actinging too much like fans.

The most remarkable thing is how come what Steve has achieved not more companies are doing.

A visionary can join the dots into the future.
 
Eduardo Ruiz said:
I sure have great respect for Steve Jobs, but I think true visionaries really don't care about patents and stock shares too much.
True visionaries like Nikola Tesla (radio, radar, alternate current AC, AC motor, plasma lamp) and Santos Dumont (first dirigible and first airplane - not the Wright Brothers - please research) left EVERYTHING for humankind. Tesla wanted that electricity should be free to everybody, and Dumont never had a patent, he left a letter stating that his inventions was not for him to profit, but for humankind.
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I sincerely doubt Steve Jobs wasted 10 minutes in his whole life worried about stock price. As for patents, that's just the way business is done today. No one here is debating the contributions of other great visionaries, nor should we be.
 
Agree, but the way business is done today is based on "planned obsolescense", and Apple took it to another level with unreplaceable batteries (that lasts 500 cicles) and new products (replacements) every 6-9 months. There's a great documentary called "Programmed Obsolescence - Build not to last" shot by TVE (Spanish Television), everyone should watch it. And this is one the main reasons I am so passionate about RED. Again, I have great respect for Mr. Jobs and his work.
 
Eduardo Ruiz said:
I sure have great respect for Steve Jobs, but I think true visionaries really don't care about patents and stock shares too much.
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Only true visionaries with really lousy business sense. I don't understand why you think that vision and good business sense need to be mutually exclusive. Or why when someone can come up with a device or an idea that can change and benefit the world that they shouldn't be rewarded for it. The United States, flawed though some aspects of it might be, is a nation that exists and thrives in large part because of the notion that hard work, innovation, and creation of useful things should lead to personal reward, which stands in stark contrast to many other parts of the world in which personal reward is achieved via a birthright.

There is no litmus test for a visionary that involves somehow eschewing wealth, and there is no requirement that everything should be free. In fact, if that were the case, there would be no Apple. As a result of that, there would also be no Microsoft Windows, no mouse driven GUIs, no tablets, no touch screen driven smartphones, no who-knows-what-else. Apple's influence has been very, very deep over the years. Their innovations have not only brought them success, but they have inspired other companies to do things they likely never would have pursued had Apple's innovations not paved the way - patents or no patents. And guess what - it takes money - lots of it - to design and create the kind of innovative products Apple has created over the years. People will likely still be talking about Steve Jobs 100 years from now as one of the great innovative minds of American industrial history, right alongside Henry Ford. To imply that his is somehow lessened because he also made money is absurd.
 
Eduardo Ruiz said:
Agree, but the way business is done today is based on "planned obsolescense", and Apple took it to another level with unreplaceable batteries (that lasts 500 cicles) and new products (replacements) every 6-9 months. There's a great documentary called "Programmed Obsolescence - Build not to last" shot by TVE (Spanish Television), everyone should watch it. And this is one the main reasons I am so passionate about RED. Again, I have great respect for Mr. Jobs and his work.
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Then just say that and leave the rest alone. Praise doesn't always have to be qualified, especially when the qualification is intended to dilute the praise. And this isn't a contest between Red and Apple. Jim started this thread to specifically talk about Steve Jobs and his contributions to industry and society. The thread is not about Red, or Apple, for that matter. It's about Steve Jobs, the man. And not in comparison to other men. We should just leave it at that.
 
Most said it best.

I hope Steve reads my post and skips the rest.

Jim
 
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