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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

IR ND's with EPIC?

Justin Marx

Justin Marx

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This is probably been asked, but I can't find it anywhere.

Do you still need to use IR Nd's? I would love for this answer to be NO, I just invested over a grand in non IR's for another camera!

Thanks ;-)
 
It has the same sensor as RED MX ... and they say the IR pollution is better with MX but you should still use them
 
Greg, did you Pancro (reflective ND + IR coat) or separate ND and IR ?

Thanks
Rivai
 
+1 to what Greg said. I'm using both Pancro IR+ND's as well as Formatt IR+ND's, Formatt ND's and a Formatt IR "hot mirror". All work just great. Not all scenes or environments have the same amount of IR bouncing around, but come prepared and do some tests if at all possible. When in doubt, reach for the IR protection.
 
Jeff, do you face ghosting image with reflective pancro in outdoor shoor even no light leaking on MB ?
 
No ghosting / reflections... You're not stacking IR filters or using them with a pola, are you?
 
I'm about to put my absolutely immaculate Pancro IR + ND .9 up for sale, FYI. I've used it twice. PM for if interested or check "for sale" threads in a day or so for more details. Sorry for the self-serving interruption in the thread...
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
No ghosting / reflections... You're not stacking IR filters or using them with a pola, are you?
Click to expand...

I dont stack reflective ND. I have complete set right up to 1.5. At first i thought, it's because of Pola stack. But even i remove the POLA, the ghosting stay. Unless i move to different position, the ghosting disappeared.

I was wondering if this has got to do to much light/bright environment that cause the light to bounce back to the reflective ND.

Strange indeed

Rivai
 
The ghosting of the image from using Pancro IR+ND filters when using stills lenses is well-documented here on REDUser by us and many others. This issue is not caused by stacking filters. It is evident when using just one. Indeed, we had two complete sets of Pancros and were forced to sell them both and move to the Formatt IR+ND filters. We have had no ghosting issues at all with the Formatt filters on the same matteboxes and using the same lenses.

Fortunately, and for some apparently unknown reason, the ghosting is only really evident using stills lenses (mostly Nikon). We noted ghosting in many shots done with Pancro IR+ND filters using Nikon lenses but none when using the Formatts. It's a very strange—but, unfortunately, also a very real—problem.

Stephen
 
Hmmm... I use the Formatts most of the time, my Pancros are kinda like my "extra set". Haven't ever used either with my DSLRs and related lenses (mostly Nikon). If it's specific to certain filters, like the Pancro, perhaps it's an issue with their surface coating, rather than sandwiching the IR substrate within the glass?

I can definitely see where different lenses can show the effect more. I've always found that different lenses handle or transmit IR in different ways. One of the most peculiar cases is the Cooke 18-100. It blocks a lot of IR on its own, but what does go through the lens is off kilter from visible light, so we see a ghosting or halo effect around high-IR sources. It's similar to CA, but shows up as a translucent, milky thing instead of the typical cyan/purple. Put a good IR filter in front of the lens and it goes away. Some SLR lenses can show noticeable distortion or CA with any heavy filtration or thicker glass filters in front of the lens. Could be a related problem....

Makes me want to test my Nikons now with some different IR/ND filters. I have a few Tiffen hot mirrors I use with my SLR lenses, haven't seen any issues...
 
very interesting stuff...I did notice some ghosting shooting with one of my Nikon lenses. But then again I was stacking filters....
 
Jeff. . .

. . . our Pancro ghosts weren't milky little things a few millimeters away from the "real" image. I'm talking about HUGE, full-color ghosts that are, using people as the metric, about three feet or so to the left or right of the main image. With a still with no movement, you can't really see them at all, but when either the camera or the subject is moving, well, you had better be prepared. Several of our shots were just on the edge of ruination, but we had to use them anyway, and, fortunately, very few people notice the ghosts.

I am certain that the unique mirrored coating on the front of the Panchros is the culprit, as we never got this effect with non-mirrored filters. Also, as you report, we had no issues at all using the Rosco hot mirror in conjunction with a standard ND, but we went with the Formatts anyway and are very happy with them.

Stephen
 
Same issue here on Pancro....sometimes it happened, sometimes it is not (off axis by about 5-10 cm). But the last one happened on Cooke S4 Lens and not still lens. Bare in mind, this case, we put out everything and left only one ND, the ghosting stays.

I;m a bit curious if certain lens will cause such problem, it never cross to my mind that this might be one of the culprit as well. Cooke S4 is not a still lens, it's a cine lens.

I never tried Formatt ND+IR, but Pancro known as the most neutral ND of all, i'm going to give a feedback to Pancro and see if they can improve their filters. I like them, it's the ghosting sometimes that make it unusable.

Rivai
 
The nightmare scenario that we faced was that the ghosts were sometimes very difficult to see on the monitor in bright daylight, but were there big as life on playback under controlled conditions. Pancros may, indeed, be the most neutral of all the NDs, but I'll take a little color shift (we're shooting RAW, after all!) if the alternative is a shot full of ghost images that can't be removed at all.

Fortunately, most people have not experienced much in the way of ghosts with cine lenses. Nikon still lenses are clearly where the real dirt is. I don't know how they interact with Canon glass, as we no longer have the Pancros to do any comparison shots.

Again, using Formatt IR+ND filters, we have not been able to reproduce the ghosts no matter how hard we tried.

Stephen
 
I've also had ghosting problems with Pancro's and S4's and now use a Schneider Trucut 750 IR filter when needed. Pancro's are pretty useless as the ghosting issues aren't always easy to see in the field and I can't afford to find out in post.
 
I hear you, Russ. . . I hear you loud and clear. There's nothing quite like thinking you've got great footage in the field and then come home and look at it in-house and shout "Oh, MAN! Look at those ghosts!!! AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!" It's almost a sick feeling. . . knowing that you should have seen it. . . but didn't. And now you can't go back and get the shots.

Stephen
 
Well, i have send over my feedback to Pancro and link them to this thread. I strongly suggest for those who face this problem can send some feedback to them and hopefully they can figure something out to fix this.

Wishful thought

Rivai
 
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