Mac Mini i7 for After Effects

[Justin O'Neill]

I've always built my PCs from scratch but the power of the new i7 Mac Minis has my attention. Basically I already own the Mac version of a piece of software and it would cost me $900 for the PC version so I am thinking of taking that money and buying the new Mac Mini instead.

My question comes down to which version would work best for After Effects and REDcine-X. The dual core i7 comes with an AMD Radeon 6630M graphics card while the sever version comes with a quad core i7 but only has integrated Intel 3000HD graphics. Which of these will be faster with REDcine-X and After Effects? My guess is the quad core CPU will be faster but I would love to know for sure.

The base Mac Minis both come in under $1k and I will be putting my own memory (def. 8gb and possibly 16gb) and solid state drives in.

 

[Subhadip Sen]

Mac Mini is basically a Macbook Pro without a battery or input/output devices. The Quad Core will definitely be faster for REDCine-X. After Effects will also benefit from the quad core CPU, but it does use OpenGL, and HD3000's OpenGL drives are somewhat broken on OS X, but I think you can disable OpenGL and use the CPU instead. Depending on what plug-ins you are planning to run, the GPU can be crucial.

It is quite a poor deal considering you can get laptops with better configuration at the same price which also include displays and keyboards and touchpads and batteries - but in your case, it does make a lot of sense. If I am not mistaken, the Mac Mini has only 2 slots for laptop RAM - I think 8GB is the limit. You can however install 2x2.5" drives.

 

[Kenn Michael]

You can actually install 16GB RAM into the machines, but the cost is more expensive than the computer itself!

 

[Justin O'Neill]

I already have displays, keyboards, etc. laying around so that is why the mini makes sense over a laptop (my i7 Macbook Air just arrived today but I need a dedicated rendering computer).

I will mainly be using AE Warp on R3D files so it sounds like the GPU isn't as important as quad cores.

Kenn, I don't know if this specific module works in a Mac Mini but you could get 16gb for $520: http://www.buy.com/prod/hp-8gb-ddr3...333mhz-ddr3-1333-pc3/q/loc/101/211087079.html

 

[Brian Merlen]

I like how the 2011 21.5 inch IMAC has 4 ram slots available and you can get a refurb one for $1019 on apples site... OWC has 16gigs for like 200 bucks if ur buying 4 gig chips rather then 8 gig chips, which as pointed out b4 cost more then the entire system does buying 8 gig ram chips....

So personally if I am going to not get a (2012?) Mac Pro the Imac looks better then the mini when it comes to Ram upgrades, catch being the non user serviceable HDD or SSD according to OWC...but TBOLT AND an R6 will rock my world...

 

[Justin O'Neill]

I like how the 2011 21.5 inch IMAC has 4 ram slots available and you can get a refurb one for $1019 on apples site.

Hmm the cheapest refurb i7 iMac is $1,569.00 though. i7 seems to be a huge jump over i5 for what we do.

Is $569 worth 16gb over 8gb and a real GPU over the integrated Intel 3000HD in the Quad Mac Mini? And not being able to put my own SSD in the iMac sucks...

 

[Subhadip Sen]

Maybe you should consider building a PC after all. An iMac 21.5" with 2.7 GHz Core i5 4C/4T quad-core, 8GB RAM, 1TB hard drive, HD 6770M comes up to $1699.

There's a Newegg combo offering a 3.3 GHz Core i5 4C/4T quad core, 8GB RAM, 1.5TB hard drive with case/PSU, motherboard, all set to go. This combo is $459 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.692927). Add a fast GPU - perhaps a GTX 560 - which is again several times faster than the HD 6770M laptop GPU in the iMac. Since you already have a display, this PC AND After Effects will be faster and cheaper than going the iMac route.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

Maybe you should consider building a PC after all.

I'm not sure AE would be faster with an i5 processor, even with a fast GPU. What appeals to me about the Mac Mini is the quad core i7 processor which at least in benchmarks smokes the i5. But you're right, once we get up into iMac land it begins to be cheaper to build even an i7 PC again.

 

[Subhadip Sen]

I'm not sure AE would be faster with an i5 processor, even with a fast GPU. What appeals to me about the Mac Mini is the quad core i7 processor which at least in benchmarks smokes the i5. But you're right, once we get up into iMac land it begins to be cheaper to build even an i7 PC again.

That is a really odd comparison. You are comparing a laptop i7 to a desktop i5! Just consider this for a second:

Core i7 2630QM in Mac Mini Server - 2.0 GHz.
Core i5 2500 - 3.3 GHz.

There's no point comparing a laptop CPU to a desktop CPU. The Core i5 2500 is far superior to any laptop CPU and AT LEAST a good 50+% faster than the one in a Mac Mini server. You are confusing the benchmarks with Core i5 laptop CPUs, which are all dual-cores clocked at 2.3-2.5 GHz. We are talking about a quad-core CPU clocked at 3.3 GHz here.

Alternatively, you could spend $100 more and get the Core i7 2600.

 

[Douglas Learner]

Justin,

A couple of thoughts. I know Adobe used to have a cross-grade program that let you switch platforms for a nominal fee, and that program may still be in effect. If so, and if you have no need to continue to run AE on a Mac, that would save you buying the software again.

As for the Mac mini, if you talk to someone on the Business Team at any Apple Store you can probably get them to OK a return with no restocking fee if you let them know what you're trying to do. You probably also want to check to make sure AE and REDcine-X will run on the server version of Lion. I know you could run Leopard Server as a client machine, but I vaguely remember that Final Cut would not run on it. I could be wrong. It's probably worth checking also if you can install a client version of Lion on the new mini Server. I think you could do that with the Snow Leopard Server Mac mini, but I haven't heard anything about the Lion Server Mac mini.

Good luck. I'll be interested to hear how it turns out. I'm considering a mini to run Shake and I'm pondering a similar question, though my choice is between the base $599 mini and the $799 mini with the discrete Radeon HD 6630M graphics.

Douglas

 

[Justin O'Neill]

I know Adobe used to have a cross-grade program that let you switch platforms for a nominal fee, and that program may still be in effect. If so, and if you have no need to continue to run AE on a Mac, that would save you buying the software again.

Our business uses Macs so that is why I am slowly switching over...I've always built my personal PCs from scratch up until now.

From what I've read you can easily install the client version of Lion on the Quad i7 server Mac Mini. It also looks like it comes down to individual programs and whether they utilize the CPU or GPU more intensively. I probably need to go to the Adobe forums and check out if Warp relies heavily on the GPU.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Why not have both? I never understand why there has to be a final decision to go with either way. Have both, use macdrive and Tuxera NTFS and you are set to do whatever needed. Use mac for other stuff and a PC for the heavy compositing.

One thing I really hate with mac, or rather OSX is the slow mouse speed. I tried accelerators and plugins to bring it closer to the feel of a PC mouse but it's so sluggish.
I feel my hand is working harder than it should and it's not really comfortable. If you are working with a pen, that's one thing but Mac feels built for the trackpad and it's not a good way of editing with.
Being able to work for long stretches of time is a huge aspect of choosing platform in my opinion.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'm not sure AE would be faster with an i5 processor, even with a fast GPU. What appeals to me about the Mac Mini is the quad core i7 processor which at least in benchmarks smokes the i5. But you're right, once we get up into iMac land it begins to be cheaper to build even an i7 PC again.

In most situations, a desktop-class i5 is going to outperform a mobile-class i7. That's something more for you to think about. The Mac Mini is cool and all, but the only way to get a quad core CPU is to order the "server" version at the higher cost. And whether you go with the dual-core or the quad-core, they're still the mobile, low power, CPU models. FWIW, the Macbook Pro has a more powerful i7 quad-core CPU offering than the Mac Mini does. I'm not exactly sure who Apple is making that Mac Mini for, but it's not made for running AE. Sure, you can do it, but the Mac Mini is the completely wrong system here. Intel 3000 integrated graphics have piss-poor OpenGL support at the moment on both Mac and PC platforms and no CUDA acceleration for Premiere or other apps that can take advantage of such things.

If you want the best bang for the buck for After Effects, you can do a lot better in terms of performance, while staying relatively compact and within the same price range, if you build / buy a PC.

As Christoffer says, sometimes you just have to use both platforms to do what you want to do. I like most of Apple's products and their success has been a boon for my business over the past few years. I like OSX and iOS and I'm a unix guy since forever ago. But I still run Windows, the majority of my systems are Windows systems. I can't function without Windows. I can't function without OSX... I'm always perplexed at the fanboyism and blind devotion to one platform that we see on both sides of the Mac/Windows fence.

@ Christoffer, what mouse/mice are you using? I keep my mouse set to be pretty fast/sensitive -- I'm an off and on avid gamer and play nearly as much on the Mac as I do on PC if the game will run on OSX. I never have trouble setting my mouse up the way I want it. I like it fast and accurate. For both games and apps. If I can't wiz it all over my dual 30" displays with hardly a thought. Never had any trouble with it being "too slow". I will say though, Apple has never made a mouse that's worth a shit. They came real close with the Magic Mouse. Actually, it's pretty darn good for a lot of things and the multi-touch surface on top is stroke (or is that a touch?) of genius. But lets' face it, Apple still hasn't figured out what makes a mouse great. So, I stick with a good Logitech and get my multi-touch on with the Apple trackpad.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

As Christoffer says, sometimes you just have to use both platforms to do what you want to do.

I actually currently have a Core 2 Quad overclocked to 3ghz...I know this doesn't compare to the new Intel processors but it's what I've been using for Redcine-X. I know I could upgrade my mother board, processor and RAM for about $500 but I saw the benchmarks for the new Mac Minis and they looked impressive for $900. I need to start working with After Effects and it would cost about $900 for Production Premium for PC so I figured getting a Mac Mini would be a better way to spend the $900 (our other guys use After Effects on Mac Pros so we already own the Mac version).

 

[Douglas Learner]

Justin, Bare Feats has published Cinebench benchmarks for the new Mac minis [ http://www.barefeats.com/mini11_01.html ] In the CPU test the quad-core i7 comes in about 45% higher than the dual-core i5 w/ ATI graphics (4.2 vs. 2.9), but the i5 comes in 113% higher than the i7 on the OpenGL test (24.9 vs. 11.7). I thnk you're probably right in that the decision will come down to whether you plan to use AE or REDcine-X.

d