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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Thoughts on the future of Scarlet and its Package...

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Joseph Hutson

Joseph Hutson

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I realize this is a long post, but this is something I have been thinking about. Maybe you should too...


DISCLAIMER: The package listed below is not a fact...only my personal feeling about what may be to come.

(1)What is the bare minimum package required to shoot with a Scarlet?

Scarlet Brain...........................$????
64GB SSD...............................$950
SIDE SSD MODULE .................$1500
DSMC Side Handle ..................$950
RED Touch LCD 5" ..................$1,600
REDVolt ..................................$195
DSMC Travel Charger ...............$125

That brings us to $5320 without including the Scarlet brain.​

(2) Should the 64GB SSD be included in the package?

As soon as you include something in a package, it makes it mandatory for EVERYONE to get and pay for it. I'm sure a very large percentage of owners will want nothing less than a 128GB SSD and will immediately start whining about them having to pay for a package which includes the 64GB SSD. Likewise, there are those on extremely tight budgets who will not want to pay for a package which forces them up to a 128GB SSD. You can't make everybody happy in this case. That is why I propose to keep media OUT of the Scarlet package.​

At this point, our list of modules and media are still at $4370

DISCLAIMER: The pricing listed below is not a fact...only my personal feeling of the possibilities to come.

(3) What is a fair reduction in price due to buying as a "package"?

  • I have no idea the way mass production has an effect on the electronics which RED is dealing with. However, I believe think that as a customer, a 15% savings on the modules/accessories would make me happy.
  • I also do not think those savings should have any bearing on what the price of the Scarlet brain is. Just because people bought the RED One did not mean that if they bought the base production pack then they would save money on their RED as well.


At this point, $3,714.50 is where we are.

(4) What value do you place the Scarlet at?​

Stepping back from what RED projected 3 years ago, they thought of something that looked a bit like this...

red_3k_scarlet_hero.png


There was a reason why they did not take reservations. At that time, it was only a concept with much work yet to be done. I don't believe it featured a Touchscreen UI, HDRx, full modularity with EPIC, same foundation as the EPIC, etc.

Speaking of the EPIC, it was first projected to be a $40,000 brain BUT that did not keep RED from bringing it down to $28,000. Nobody seems to bring that up, but people still find it easy to persecute RED for the minute price increases of the Scarlet as it became more fleshed out.

The Scarlet is no longer Soccermom territory. We've known this for a long time that RED is after the cinema market while leaving it up to hobbyists to still decide whether they want to step up or not. With what RED is offering with the current Scarlet brain, I don't see a crime in it being $4,500 (other than the fact that we may be stealing from RED).​

(5) WHAT? Over $8,000 for 3K...plus I have to purchase media!?!?

Actually, yeah, I think that's more than fair to the customer.

  • RESOLUTION: 3K
  • Dynamic Range: Approximately the same 18 stops with HDRx
  • Frame Rates: More than 120fps. Overcranking in HDRx as well.
  • Chip Size: 2/3"
  • Zoom Lens: FF35 Equivalent 28-224mm
  • Default Recording Media: SSD
  • Many other "goodies" not mentioned.

It is very different than the original "3K for 3K", yet it is a very different camera. Maybe it's not for you anymore? Maybe it's for some people that it wasn't for, 3 years ago?

RED has two options.
  • Surprise the majority of people with it being lower that they anticipated.
  • Surprise the majority of people with it being higher than they anticipated.

The beauty of it is is that either way, they will offer something that no other company still hasn't done while having a 3 year notice that something like a Scarlet was coming. AND, they owe everybody nothing for doing as they see fit.​

In the end, I expect the Scarlet to be a cheaper price (whatever it may be) for the first number of months before going up to what they really should be (similar to what we see with the EPIC-X)

I realize this is a very UNpopular stance on the matter. So, everyone can now throw stones at me. Maybe even RED. :leaving:
 

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If scarlet is available to the red owners first then a lot of them will have this stuff already for their epic.
 
IS CF modules still working for the scarlets? If they are no longer on sale then they can be bought on the used market to work with scarlet? Also red r1 drives?
 
i've been thinking about the same things joseph. i think it's probably a better idea to keep the media as an add-on to any package deal. and really, i don't know what other thoughts i will have until final specs and prices and options and delivery is announced. but i know this is going to be one high quality machine!
 
Yeah well the 3K for 3K was just a marketing tool IMO to get the indie crew excited, then surprise them with a much more expensive camera but with more features ......Bait and switch is a method I use to catch Marlin, very effective
 
if we're going to talk about prices and deliverables right now, let's try to be respectful of the house we're in... otherwise we have no business being guests.
 
Yeah mate just frustrated here with whats going on....sorry RED
 
Thanks for breaking that down Joseph...All of RED's prices are extremely low, especially when you compare to their "competitors" (if you can call them that) that aren't producing nearly the advanced machinery that RED does, but at much higher prices. I think what you laid out is pretty accurate and yeah, they'll never be able to make everyone happy regardless of package, price point etc. For me, It's wishful thinking that it will still be in the $6,000 range as mentioned at NAB, only because that's how much I can afford right now ;) But if money weren't an issue, then I would gladly pay $8 to $10 grand for everything you mentioned above. That's a major bargain for what you'd get in return.
 
I would be very surprised and happy if the package Joseph outlined plus Scarlet cost $8000. I am expecting $10k though. I know Red isn't ready to release the camera yet, however the sooner they can release the price and package details the better. As this camera will cater to the indie crowd a lot of people (me included) will need to budget and plan their funds. The more time we have to do that the more likely we can buy the camera when it comes out.
 
Mathieu Ghekiere said:
I know prices have gone up, with starting at 2012 for orders.

But didn't Ted even say that a Scarlet Fixed package (he showed it in a video, with the LCD etc) would go for about 6k? I believe - but I could be wrong - this was after the earthquake in Japan?
Click to expand...

The pricing and package mentioned are not facts...only my personal feelings about what may be to come. I have edited the OP to better clarify this.
 
Just for accuracy Joseph, $4370 discounted by 15% is $3714.50.
 
Joseph Hutson said:
The pricing and package mentioned are not facts...only my personal feelings about what may be to come. I have edited the OP to better clarify this.
Click to expand...

Hi Joseph,

yes, I realize this. The point that I'm making is, that if Ted still said the package would be 'around 6K' after the earthquake (and I'm not attacking RED, I know some consequences and price realisations have to be calculated before making public), I can't imagine that a base package would go up to 10K. I can see it being 7K to MAYBE 8K, but I think higher than that is to far from the original price. It's not a bash, whatever price it will be, it will be worth it and will be probably a lot better deal than the competition, but I *think* a lot of people that are in the market for a Scarlet Fixed (I know I am) are in that market as a matter of compromise, financially. I think an Epic-S package will be too far out of my reach, but a Scarlet Fixed gives me a cheap all-in-one solution package that should still give me a very good image quality etc.
Some people choose a Scarlet because they like the advantages of a 2/3" sensor, but I think many people choose it as an alternative for all the prosumer camera's there. Once you go higher than a certain price (it's different for everyone because it's relative, but I think many people have the same 'psychological' barriers), I think you have to make sure your camera still finds its market.
If your camera is too expensive for the people that wanted to originally buy it, then some of those are gonna save up, but many maybe won't.
But if it caters to people who are financially better equiped for the investment, then THOSE people will maybe instead just go for an Epic-S or Epic-X, or a Scarlet Cinema.

Personally, I think the whole package will be around 6-7K and at that price, it will still find a big market, considering its features.
I'm thinking in 2011 prices, because most people that want to buy the Scarlet have been waiting a long time, and I don't think many of them will wait very long to make an order once they become available.
 
Reality check. The side handle and the 5" LCD will both go up significantly next year, $1750 vs $950 and $1950 vs $1600. REdmote is going up to $750 too.

CF cards will still be supported via an adapter for the SSD module, but performance will be more limited.

Mark Toia mentioned that the touch screen LCD fully controls Epic M, so neither the Redmote nor the side handle are absolutely essential. One still needs some sort of battery module, but aftermarket V-locks work too.

I'm anxious to see how it all shakes out, but hopefully Red will release the fixed before the first of the year and allow orders at the old prices for a bit.

Things that have and will impact the price: Upgraded performance and features, massive increase in parts costs due to the Japan factor, Scarlet will be most likely be built in the US instead of overseas.

It is looking like Scarlet will realistically price out about like other entry level 2/3" cameras for a decent field package with similar operating features though a bare bones starter package should still be under $10k.

Reality sucks, but it is still a very good price/performance deal when compared to the alternatives.

If we can place orders before the price increases, I will probably order a fixed package to take advantage of it instead of waiting for the interchangeable version. Maybe add the interchangeable brain later.

Lets hope for a mid-late fall release for Scarlet!:thumbup1:
 
Yes, I think $10k (before tax/shipping) is the figure people should be looking at for a starter package.

Just one niggle with the initial post... and quite a few posts I have seen on RU.... I don't think we should be talking about the dynamic range of these cameras as being 18 Stops with HDRx on..... Jim Jannard specifically said that HDRx will not work with every shot. So let's talk about the camera in terms of how it will work in everyday shooting... A very healthy 12/13 stops of DR, with an option of up to 18 stops on certain shots.

Hopefully, with all the Ms out there, we should soon hear some reports of where HDRx might not be wise.
 
Mathieu Ghekiere said:
I know prices have gone up, with starting at 2012 for orders.

But didn't Ted even say that a Scarlet Fixed package (he showed it in a video, with the LCD etc) would go for about 6k? I believe - but I could be wrong - this was after the earthquake in Japan?
Click to expand...
Yes, he did say so, but I also recall a little pained hesitation on his part. I find it interesting that the Scarlet fixed has taken the most -- and most public -- price hikes, so don't be surprised if there is another one. Or two.
 
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