Does this need to be done in the SDK?

[Shane Betts]

So, I find myself working in Lightroom more and Photoshop less. Love it.

And it strikes me that Lightroom's treatment of grading tools; specifically, changes performed in RAW vs RGB, is the way of the future for Red. For those of you unfamiliar, unlike the Photoshop (and pretty much everything in cine), there is no separate panel for RAW controls. You want to alter the exposure? Alter the exposure - and the software gives you the best path. If the control is available in RAW, it makes the changes in RAW. If it needs to be in RGB, it makes the changes in RGB. Go from a RAW image to a JPG and you, the operator, see no difference in the controls. Totally transparent.

Now, two of the major issues we face getting folk to warm to Red (and I'm talking colourists and post supes here) are that they don't want to be bothered dropping into RAW panels to make changes. They see this as a flaw in the Red workflow and don't see the advantages. And, needless to say, once they go right ahead, ignore all the wisdom and advice and do things the way they always have, they then complain that the Red footage doesn't look any better, or is noisier, than other cameras - particularly Alexa ProRes. Well DUH!

If the RAW controls could be made invisible, rolled into the usual controls of the grading app, this would all just go away. The apps already sense the presence of R3Ds to enable the RAW panel in the first place. With help from the SDK, could the apps simply mimic Lightroom and do it all under the bonnet?

I think the same could also be extended to HDRx. Rather than having a blending slider, the colourist would simply use the same sliders they're using now. Apply a flattened curve and, SHAZAM, the highlight detail just keeps coming and, like any other grading decision, the extent to which you use it is based purely on how the image looks.

This kind of implementation would give Red a much higher acceptance level amongst those who don't give a shit how easy the camera is to use on-set and make the images better at the same time.

Any thoughts?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Can all be done with the current SDK toolset. This all comes down to implementation from the various softwares. IMO, a big reason why most R3D supporting apps have separate panels for RAW controls is because the developers want to treat the RAW separately -- just as a lot of the post people do. It also has to do with integration from a software development perspective. Much easier to build panels that use the generic R3D controls at "face value" and use that or the onboard metadata, or associated RMD, as a construct by which to load the R3D image data into the applications' internal working format. A simpler way to say that might be that they just want to keep R3D controls separate. Otherwise they would have to write a more complex system for the controls in their app, making them intelligent to know what sort of footage they're working with and adapt accordingly. Lightroom has it right. I'm really hoping Adobe will give us a new app like Lightroom that will handle motion.

 

[Johnny Friday]

and keyframing of raw data....

 

[Matthias Hutter]

I agree.

Lightroom is by far my favorite Adobe software, if not my favorite software overall. It has dramatically improved my RAW still work flow

 

[Shane Betts]

Yup. Whatever you currently can do in RGB, with your normal controls, should simply apply to RAW when the clip is an R3D or Arri RAW. You only have to use Lightroom for five minutes to get it. It simply should be this way.

And Jeff, I'd say a hell of a lot of post people want the RAW controls kept separate so they can feel justified in ignoring them. Drives me crazy here trying to get industry leading lights to adapt. And, of course, it's always Red's fault. OK, I'm ranting now... :furious3:

 

[Jake Bastian]

For my workflow I've found some adjustments look better when they are made in the RAW panel, and some look better when in the Primary's and secondaries. I'm not sure I'd like the computer making the choices of which adjustments are made where. I have been grading in Color - we'll see if that remains the same with Resolve.

 

[Shane Betts]

For my workflow I've found some adjustments look better when they are made in the RAW panel, and some look better when in the Primary's and secondaries. I'm not sure I'd like the computer making the choices of which adjustments are made where. I have been grading in Color - we'll see if that remains the same with Resolve.

Hey Jake. In what way do they look better? Is it the application of the control (ie, RAW is less subtle etc) or is it the actual control slider in Color. Love to hear your feedback on this very thing once you're in Resolve. You're going to be blown away by Resolve BTW. Chalk and cheese.