Final Cut Pro 10 and R3D

[Eric Santiago]

I would like to start a thread on the R3D workflow folks are using with the latest FCP.
I would also like it if we start with learning and teaching as oppose to attacking Apple and everyone that's positive about this new tool.
There are other topics out there you can join with your pitch-fork

So lets begin...

 

[Tom.Wong]

can't see that there's much to it. the workflow is technically more in inefficient than fcp 7 with r3d with fcp x. you transcode to pro res, and edit in fcp x. that's it. you're stuck witht he pro res you made. no onlining, because there's no edl or xml support. no re-lights because there's no xml support... thus no round tripping via clipfinder... rcx... resolve... pablo... scratch... you just have to color the quicktimes either with shot detection in grading systems or grade in fcp x...

so it's just transcode to pro res and stay in pro res. there's really no other workflow right now for fcp x.

 

[Eric Santiago]

can't see that there's much to it. the workflow is technically more in inefficient than fcp 7 with r3d with fcp x. you transcode to pro res, and edit in fcp x. that's it. you're stuck witht he pro res you made. no onlining, because there's no edl or xml support. no re-lights because there's no xml support... thus no round tripping via clipfinder... rcx... resolve... pablo... scratch... you just have to color the quicktimes either with shot detection in grading systems or grade in fcp x...

so it's just transcode to pro res and stay in pro res. there's really no other workflow right now for fcp x.

Thanks but its a start. Ive already gone over that workflow (albeit basic) a few times. I just wanted feedback from folks that are using it to learn and not to poke fun off
I dont work in R3D alone so if anyone else has some tips and just want to chat please drop by, if I had beer Id offer

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Well, its the tried and true grade then output workflow.

Right now I'm seeing a workflow that applies a solid correction to shots in RedCine and then moves on to FCP X for "finishing."

Today, there is no real way out of FCP X, so if you can't finish with its toolset, I wouldn't even take my work into the FCP X ecosystem at all.

This will work effectively for a lot of projects.

Red is about RAW all the time ... but that is still an edge case of the best practice.

You can do EXCELLENT work by setting a good basic look then exporting to a good format to work with.

If you do this first step properly ProRes4444 gives you an extraordinary amount of grading latitude ... and really no reason to go back to R3D unless you made a mistake.

That said, You don't have to work in ProRes. Uncompressed is supported in FCP X. So are TIFF, TGA and RAW ... so you can bring in image sequences.

Its immature, not entirely useless.

 

[Eric Santiago]

Well, its the tried and true grade then output workflow.

Right now I'm seeing a workflow that applies a solid correction to shots in RedCine and then moves on to FCP X for "finishing."

Today, there is no real way out of FCP X, so if you can't finish with its toolset, I wouldn't even take my work into the FCP X ecosystem at all.

This will work effectively for a lot of projects.

Red is about RAW all the time ... but that is still an edge case of the best practice.

You can do EXCELLENT work by setting a good basic look then exporting to a good format to work with.

If you do this first step properly ProRes4444 gives you an extraordinary amount of grading latitude ... and really no reason to go back to R3D unless you made a mistake.

That said, You don't have to work in ProRes. Uncompressed is supported in FCP X. So are TIFF, TGA and RAW ... so you can bring in image sequences.

Its immature, not entirely useless.

Thanks Alexander very informative. Presently we shoot RAW but output to HD. Were pretty new to the RED fold so itll take time before we can do full on workflow from RAW to Resolve (waiting on 8) to whatever Film output we deal with.
Any tips will help. Since FCPX is new, I figured opening dialogue with known users will be helpful in the future.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Alexander - Can you elaborate on RAW being supported in FCPX? What would you take out of RCK (or Storm?) in order to work in RAW in FCPX?

And Eric, thanks for this thread. I hope the people who want to snipe are willing to do it somewhere else. :001_smile:

 

[Jason Madeja]

Here's something on XML from Philip Hodgetts blog. some other interesting Q&A in there as well:

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2011/...e-unanswered-questions-about-final-cut-pro-x/

What about XML-workflows?

The XML workflows that we’ve known are no longer part of the package: no XML export or import. Final Cut Pro 7 did not support AppleScript, just a limited set of AppleEvents for accessing XML.
However, during my direct briefing, the Apple folk made it abundantly clear that the ecosystem was very important to them, and that there will be a new, and much improved, replacement for the current XML workflow. That’s entirely consistent with what I’d heard pre-release that there would be a new form of XML and that it would be accessed by some sort of SDK (Software Developer Kit). This seems like encouraging news, even if it will mean a lot of extra work on our own software to “get back to where we are”.
Unfortunately, access to these features is not available at today’s release, so we have to wait until Apple deem it complete enough to open to third parties like us at Intelligent Assistance.

 

[Eric Santiago]

Don't have to thank me Terry we just need a place to actually talk about this without the hate.
Its a given that Apple and/or vendors are going to take advantage of the many early adopters (it seems a lot from my perspective) wishes.
I'm here to learn so that my workflow is smooth.
Were still learning from the Avid perspective but again were not round-tripping to Film res yet.

Its all of you thats contributed to learning that should be thanked

 

[Terry VerHaar]

For the record, I am not at all satisfied with FCP-X as it is. However, I am very optimistic. In fact, I just fired it up and loaded in some footage for the first time and I am already jazzed. I think it has huge potential and I am willing to continue my "serious" work on FCP 7 for a little longer while FCP-X and I get to be close friends. :thumbup:

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Alexander - Can you elaborate on RAW being supported in FCPX? What would you take out of RCK (or Storm?) in order to work in RAW in FCPX?

And Eric, thanks for this thread. I hope the people who want to snipe are willing to do it somewhere else. :001_smile:

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

Today RAW moving image files are not supported in FCP X. Not just Red R3D, but no RAW formats. Not ArriRAW, not SI2K, not Genesis or F65 ... none of them.

RAW still image files are supported. I haven't done it, but its in the specifications and manual. What kind of RAW stills? I don't know ... probably the same ones you can view in the Finder - but that's a guess.

 

[Tom.Wong]

Well, its the tried and true grade then output workflow.

Right now I'm seeing a workflow that applies a solid correction to shots in RedCine and then moves on to FCP X for "finishing."

Today, there is no real way out of FCP X, so if you can't finish with its toolset, I wouldn't even take my work into the FCP X ecosystem at all.

This will work effectively for a lot of projects.

Red is about RAW all the time ... but that is still an edge case of the best practice.

You can do EXCELLENT work by setting a good basic look then exporting to a good format to work with.

If you do this first step properly ProRes4444 gives you an extraordinary amount of grading latitude ... and really no reason to go back to R3D unless you made a mistake.

That said, You don't have to work in ProRes. Uncompressed is supported in FCP X. So are TIFF, TGA and RAW ... so you can bring in image sequences.

Its immature, not entirely useless.

for simple workflows, fast turn overs, etc. that's fine. but in my opinion, best way to grade r3d, is to actually grade it, not in a linear baked format, even if it's uncompressed dpx. you are shooting in RAW, and if you can take advantage of it, you should. the play you have on exposure, using different color sciences to your advantage, offers a huge advantage. something as simple as tweaking the color temperature directly rather than using curves produces a cleaner look from warm to cool.

again, there are plenty of projects out there that go to pro res with one lights, and stay that way, and need it to be like that. but pushing it to a advanced workflow method is literally not possible right now with fcp x. tiff and tga aren't raw, only the r3d is.




it's more important for the nle to have a way of getting your project to advanced solutions than it being the solution in itself. you are more crippled when you can't get your project out of your NLE to really do what you want with the project.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

Today RAW moving image files are not supported in FCP X. Not just Red R3D, but no RAW formats. Not ArriRAW, not SI2K, not Genesis or F65 ... none of them.

RAW still image files are supported. I haven't done it, but its in the specifications and manual. What kind of RAW stills? I don't know ... probably the same ones you can view in the Finder - but that's a guess.

Thanks. Much appreciated. I love this thread. (Hopefully it will continue to address what CAN be done and not disintegrate into another "No, you can't do it the "right way" (i.e. my way) and so it sucks!)

 

[Eric Santiago]

Im off for a few days due to holidays.
I will try and post here via iPhone (yaa thats right)
Folks keep it up and test the heck out of this app.
Im starting to see more benefits and not just in NLE but in GUI too.

 

[Uli Plank]

Definitely no DPX sequences as in Premiere Pro …

 

[CraigDavidson]

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

Today RAW moving image files are not supported in FCP X. Not just Red R3D, but no RAW formats. Not ArriRAW, not SI2K, not Genesis or F65 ... none of them.

RAW still image files are supported. I haven't done it, but its in the specifications and manual. What kind of RAW stills? I don't know ... probably the same ones you can view in the Finder - but that's a guess.

Have not completed testing yet, but SI2K is supported in iMovie, so it should work in FCP-X. You do need to change some of the default settings. Some users have reported that 2K SI2K material plays better in FCP-X than in FCP 7. You should still have access to all the real-time color adjustments using FirstLight, and have control over the type/quality of the DeBayer at play/render time.

 

[Kaku Ito]

I got the Premiere Pro CS5.5 on my Mac Pro with RR playing back 4k footage on HD timeline through Multibridge pro without dropping frames. Premiere Pro even export FCP XML, so that's it. I'm sold with CS5.5. Now that I teach at an university, I can purchase the Production Premium upgrade cheaper, too. Now I can forget about adjusting to FCPX for awhile, let it grow while doing my jobs with Premiere Pro CS5.5. Amazing to see a nonlinear editing software taking advantage of RR playing back in realtime.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

It's pretty neat to see Premiere Pro CS5.5 taking advantage of all the processing power on my 12 core to play back R3D at 1/2 Res realtime. If you got a 12 core you don't even need a RR for HD playback.

 

[Tom.Wong]

It's pretty neat to see Premiere Pro CS5.5 taking advantage of all the processing power on my 12 core to play back R3D at 1/2 Res realtime. If you got a 12 core you don't even need a RR for HD playback.

does RR help with exporting the timeline though? when it's full debayer time... RR is the best weapon you got.

 

[Kaku Ito]

That's good, too, but then RR will free up your CPU processing power.

 

[Jean Wallez]

I don't know what they have done to CS5 to become 5.5 but now i can read in 1/2 res with a single I7 920 quadcore...