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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED sequence presets and external monitoring

Andrae Palmer

Andrae Palmer

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While using the RED sequence presets in Premiere Pro CS5.5 is it possible to get an external monitor preview out? I've got an FSI connected to the Decklink Extreme 3d+. I know how to get a signal with the Blackmagic sequence presets but unfortunately playback rates are very slow.
 
I've read a few dissapointing threads that state it's not possible to monitor RED native footage with an external monitor via BM Decklink. This thread on Creative Cow is an example: http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/906950

It's really amazing that with Davinci Resolve you can monitor native RED footage in realtime via a Blackmagic Decklink card. Why can't we do the same in Premiere Pro?
 
Andrae Palmer said:
I've read a few dissapointing threads that state it's not possible to monitor RED native footage with an external monitor via BM Decklink. This thread on Creative Cow is an example: http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/906950

It's really amazing that with Davinci Resolve you can monitor native RED footage in realtime via a Blackmagic Decklink card. Why can't we do the same in Premiere Pro?
Click to expand...

The problem is that we have the video up on the video card and have to read it back to get it to BM. We know this is a problem and are working towards fixes with BM.

Cheers

Dave
 
But with a Dreamcolor from HP we should be able to look at it for reference – after all it's progressive and RGB. Or is this wrong?
 
For the Dreamcolor you can use a DVI to HDMI cable from your GPU card to the monitor. I have no idea if the signal will be 10 bits.

Of course I would prefer to monitor in 10 bit 3Gb/sec RGB 4:4:4 SDI to my Flanders Scientific 24".
 
I'm in exactly the same pot as you guys. Resolve just arrived yesterday with a Wave panel and Quadro 4000. I'm planning to use my existing ATI 5870 as the Gui card and the 4000 for GPU work. I also have a Rocket, which is gonna have to move to a 4x slot (drag). I guess my last slot is gonna have to hold a DeckLink card so I can go SDI out for Resolve and I'm looking at the Flander's 24 for this. I have their 17" and love the image and built in scopes. The Resolve image does look pretty good on my Eizo, but that screen has no SDI in (running off the graphics card at 8bit) and I can't see anyway to setup Resolve for dual monitor work. If I could pull the "Viewer" window out to the Eizo and leave the rest of Resolve's GUI on my Apple display I'd be fairly happy but don't see a way to do this....
 
For the Dreamcolor you can use a DVI to HDMI cable from your GPU card to the monitor. I have no idea if the signal will be 10 bits.
Click to expand...
It will be 10 Bit through the displayport of a quadro card in a Windows machine and CS5 for example.
 
Found in the Adobe forum :

It sounds like your question is whether an end user using 10-bit content can expect to preview that content using the full bit depth using the DisplayPort connector on the graphics card.



When you say preview I'm assuming that:

•You mean going out to a full screen playback on monitor via Playback Settings >> External Device >> "OutputMonitor"
•That the output monitor is a 30-bit capable display such as an HP DreamColor monitor connected via DisplayPort.
•Input source is 10-bit Cineform (4:2:2) (or similar 10-bit source)
•Premiere Pro CS 5/5.5 is active on the primary output.
•The preview shown on the 30-bit output monitor in the senario above mirrors the output to the Program Monitor in Premiere.


In the workflow here, 10-bit output would not be possible using the GTX 570 or any other Geforce card because of the limitations I mentioned above.
( There have been many Geforce boards that have offered DisplayPort connections as an option, and they have supported 10-bit color output to a full screen (true full screen not a maximized window) Direct X surface. However, due to the way that most applications use traditional Windows API functions to create the application UI and viewport display, this is generally not a very useful option. In order to get 10-bit color functionality over DisplayPort within Premiere you are still going to need a Quadro card.)
( Your correct that the UI is unimportant if you want 10-bit preview. What I'm saying is that all the information I've recieved have indicated that the methods used within Premiere to draw video surfaces are not compatible with the need for Geforce 10-bit color to use a full screen Direct X surface and that even an application that did use the correct Direct X full screen output, would likely still be drawing a UI on one of the outputs (assuming you are previewing on one display and editing on the other), mixing 10-bit full screen DirectX output and 8-bit windowed output for the application UI is a non-trival coding task and I'm not aware of any application that performs this way.)



Premiere Pro uses a 10-bit OpenGL pixel format to handle 10-bpp output. The application queries the devices for 10-bit support, if that query is positive the application then creates a 10-bit OGL pixel format and draws out to it. When requested for a 10-bit OGL pixel format any Geforce board will fail the query and Premiere will provide a standard 8bpp pixel format for the video drawing surface.



While 10-bit color is part of the DisplayPort specification, this does not mean that implementing a DP connection allows 10-bit functionality. Many different requirements must be met. The application must specifically request a 30-bit color pixel format, and implement its use within the application, the output device must be capable of recieving 30-bit data over the DP connection and correctly implement an appropriate color space. The graphics hardware must be capable of supporting the 30-bit pixel format requests on both a hardware and driver level.



Hopefully this adresses the use cases your customers are interested in. The Geforce cards definitely support 10-bit color processing and output (and have for some time now), it's simply that the methods that they use do not apply based on the way that 30-bit color support is implemented in professional applications like Premiere Pro. If your interested in the details including some of the challenges of implementing 30-bit color support, you might find this useful: http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/40049/TB-04701-001_v02_new.pdf



Sean



NVIDIA, Technical Marketing
 
Jean Wallez said:
It will be 10 Bit through the displayport of a quadro card in a Windows machine and CS5 for example.
Click to expand...

Will it be 10 bits in a Mac machine with the Quadro?
 
No,10-bit internal display processing (hardware support for 10-bit scanout for both windowed desktop and full screen), only available on Windows and Linux with Aero disabled. It will be adressed in the new mac OS to come.
 
I too, am after a similar solution. I need to monitor everything on a CRT. SD, HD and ideally 2k and 4k too. I think it's crazy to have to use the BM CS5.5 presets rather than the native premiere project presets for P2, XDCAM and RED.

I've been doing LOTS of digging and have come up with the following option that i'm testing next week.

I'm going to pop an AJA Kona 3G and LHi into a HP Z400 system with a NVidia Quadro 4000. I've been told by reliable sources that the AJA will output to external monitors using the native Premiere presets. This is perfect what what i need if it works, but i'll also test if it will also play a 4K red timeline onto a HD CRT for preview purposes, downressing the 4K to 1080P in the AJA card.

I'm testing this all next week, but have exhausted all BM options. It can't be done with their kit.

Simon
 
Simon Dunne said:
I too, am after a similar solution. I need to monitor everything on a CRT. SD, HD and ideally 2k and 4k too. I think it's crazy to have to use the BM CS5.5 presets rather than the native premiere project presets for P2, XDCAM and RED.

I've been doing LOTS of digging and have come up with the following option that i'm testing next week.

I'm going to pop an AJA Kona 3G and LHi into a HP Z400 system with a NVidia Quadro 4000. I've been told by reliable sources that the AJA will output to external monitors using the native Premiere presets. This is perfect what what i need if it works, but i'll also test if it will also play a 4K red timeline onto a HD CRT for preview purposes, downressing the 4K to 1080P in the AJA card.

I'm testing this all next week, but have exhausted all BM options. It can't be done with their kit.

Simon
Click to expand...

Let me see if I can get a tech doc written on all this stuff. We have plans in this area that will make all of these easier and clearer for our partners. We like our partners and want all their stuff to rock with native timelines. For now the one thing I have seen a lot of testing on is the NVidia SDI Out. I know that works well with RED.

Cheers
Dave
 
Thanks Dave. I don't know if you remember my PM a while back, but i'm in contact with the guys in the UK doing loads of testing! Will let you all know how i get on with the AJA test....!
 
David McGavran said:
For now the one thing I have seen a lot of testing on is the NVidia SDI Out. I know that works well with RED.
Click to expand...

But that is quite pricey. For us RED folks (since it's all RGB and progressive) it would be great and much cheaper if we could use the Dreamcolor on a Mac as well. If Lion supports this and Adobe can make use of it, I'd be really happy.
 
David, hope you and adobe can fix these issues soon. I find that even using the BM settings, it's no good because it causes massive instability in Premiere. I crash out literally several times every few minutes, and all I was doing was working with some cineform files, at 1080p. Not being able to externally monitor, on a calibrated hd reference is a serious hindrance, and even if I were to use the BM presets, it's unstable, and losing mercury/cuda acceleration really gimps Premiere. I'm still in FCP, mainly because I'd rather have accurate monitoring over all the bells and whistles of Premiere. May sound silly, but knowing exposure, color, and having a large monitor to check focus and really see the scene is important for a lot of editors/colorists such as myself.
 
Uli Plank said:
But that is quite pricey. For us RED folks (since it's all RGB and progressive) it would be great and much cheaper if we could use the Dreamcolor on a Mac as well. If Lion supports this and Adobe can make use of it, I'd be really happy.
Click to expand...

We will definitely support it on the mac if possible, right now its not, not sure if it is in lion...

Cheers

Dave
 
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