Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Real 3k or 2k for the scarlet

P

Pascal Payant

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2011
Messages
219
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Montreal,Canada
Hi
i'm sure this issue but i want to know.

Does the Scarlet is true 2k or it will be true 3k

if it's 2k is it way better than all the rest out there or i should focus on the red one for a theater release feature film.

thank you so much
I can't wait to see the red scarlet.
 
It will record 3K RAW, meaning that after debayering, the measurable resolution will probably be something like 2.4K, which will make an excellent 2K or 1080P master. It would probably outresolve a sensor that starts out at 2K RAW, or a camera that records everything to 1080P. "True" whatever is a loaded term, there's no true anything. You could take a 3K RAW recording and create a 3K RGB file from it, but it would resolve something like 2.4K worth of detail -- so what's "true"? And since 3K or 2.4K is not a common size for a master, it would end up as a 2K RGB master, in which case it would no longer be able to resolve 2.4K, so is 2K now "true"? The word is practically meaningless.

There are (1) the number of pixels in the sensor, (2) the number of pixels in the recording, (3) the number of pixels in the final master, and (4) the number of lines the image can resolve. So what do you really want to know, leaving the word "true" out of the discussion? And what do you mean by "all the rest out there"? All the other cameras with 2K sensors or ones that record 1080P? Are you asking if you'll get more resolution shooting on the Red One at 4K instead of the Scarlet at 3K? Of course, isn't that obvious? Are you asking if a 2K movie is good enough for theatrical release? Well, 98% of all D.I.'s for features are done at 2K, most DCP packages for theaters are 2K, so clearly 2K is considered to be acceptable for theatrical presentation. But obviously shooting in 4K, finishing in 4K, and then showing in 4K would be preferable, and obviously have more resolution.
 
Perfect thank you so much. than anwser everything. yeah i was wondering if the 3k from the scarlet was enough to do a feature film and put it on the big screen.
the scarlet would it be compatible with redray too?
 
2.4k should be about the technical measured resolution of your final images. compare that to other cameras on the market, the highest of which resolve what...? like mayyyybe 1.7k?

it's nice to have that play, a lot of editors like to reframe shots (or sometimes they are unfortunately forced to because of poor planning or complex situations). not to mention it's nice to have some extra resolution for post-production and visual effects.
 
I have a question.

When you take a Red One's 4k image and (I'm not sure what the correct term is) scale? it to 2k, that is "true" 2k correct?

Now if you take the scarlets 3k image (2.4k) and scale it to 2k, Will both 2k images look the same? as in you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two.

My instant tells me that the 4k image would somehow look better because its starting out with more info/detail/resolution.

But if you are scaling to a specific resolution of lets say 2048 × 1556. How can 4k scaled to 2048 × 1556 and 3k scaled to 2048 × 1556 look different?

Did that make any sense at all? haha

Having never had a camera that could shoot over 1080p I wouldn't know.

Edit: Maybe Scaled is the wrong word.
 
Last edited:
Well, I'd guess that the Alexa recording 2.8K RAW would resolve a bit over 2K. Obviously the Red One at 4.5K RAW should resolve around 3.6K and the Epic at 5.1K RAW would resolve 4.1K -- but those are all very rough guesses based on no more than assuming 80% resolution retained after debayering.

The RGB-striped sensor cameras that oversample to record to 1920 x 1080, like the F35 and Genesis, don't use debayering but you figure that the measurable resolution can't be much more than 1.6K, 1.7K or so on a 1.9K (1080P) recording without getting into aliasing issues.

There are some 2.5K RAW cameras (like one of the Phantoms I think) and also the 4K Phantom 65.
 
Tim Nitsch said:
I have a question.

When you take a Red One's 4k image and (I'm not sure what the correct term is) scale? it to 2k, that is "true" 2k correct?

Now if you take the scarlets 3k image (2.4k) and scale it to 2k, Will both 2k images look the same? as in you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two.

My instant tells me that the 4k image would somehow look better because its starting out with more info/detail/resolution.

But if you are scaling to a specific resolution of lets say 2048 × 1556. How can 4k scaled to 2048 × 1556 and 3k scaled to 2048 × 1556 look different if on both sides your starting out with a image bigger then what your ending up with.

Did that make any sense at all? haha

Having never had a camera that could shoot over 1080p I wouldn't know.
Click to expand...

Good question... you figure that starting out with a 4K RAW image instead of a 3K RAW image would make a better downscaled 2K RGB image, just due to oversampling, but "better" in what way? If 2K RGB becomes the limiting factor in the final image, then you figure that the 3K and 4K image would end up at similar measurable resolutions in the 2K version, but there would be some subtle improvements with the one that started out at 4K, such as with noise, maybe how edge detail is rendered. But of course it also depends on the quality of the downscaling.
 
yeah david's right (as usual :). there are other high end camera's beyond the scarlet price range that capture raw data similar to the scarlet. and they are good cameras.

tim, the question has a lot of variables based on viewing mostly. i'm sure some guys pretty soon will jump in and post something that's about 2 pages long on the subject, so i'll be brief and simple. just remember that how you scale an image depends on the viewing circumstances and how it was captured, and that perceived sharpness has more to it than simply resolution.

besides reframing, one benefit of downscaling can be that a soft focus has the ability to seem sharper in the scaling. noise can be reduced easier without compromising the look of the image. but if both of these hypothetical shots are the same and captured clean and sharp and scaled appropriately, there would really be little noticeable difference to the average viewer.

there are obviously many benefits to capturing higher resolution though. more options and consistently better results.
 
Ahh that makes sence.

Basically what I was trying to get at was, I see these amazing videos on Vimeo that were shot on a Red One and you can definitely see the difference between that and something that was shot on a DSLR for example. Theres no question the Red One looks better.

My point is, can I expect something similar out of the Scarlet even with the difference between the 4k and 3k images.

Maybe I should have just asked this question in the first place:banghead:
 
Tim Nitsch said:
Ahh that makes sence.

Basically what I was trying to get at was, I see these amazing videos on Vimeo that were shot on a Red One and you can definitely see the difference between that and something that was shot on a DSLR for example. Theres no question the Red One looks better.

My point is, can I expect something similar out of the Scarlet even with the difference between the 4k and 3k images.

Maybe I should have just asked this question in the first place:banghead:
Click to expand...

Lots of other reasons why projects shot on R1 look better than those on DSLR. Not that there aren't some great looking projects online that were shot on all kinds of formats. If you shoot a project on RED that doesn't look good, the camera really isn't at fault.

Especially for internet output, even at 1080/2K I would not expect a dramatic viewable difference between 4k/3k capture scaled down properly. Resolution is unquestionably a good thing to have, but as you probably well know, there's so much more that goes into making the finished product look good, from art direction to lighting and composing to post-production, etc. I will say with any RED camera, you're starting off in a lot better place. You've got a much wider dynamic range, more accurate color information, visually lossless image formats, and a heck of a lot of room to push the look of the image in post-production without sacrificing quality.
 
Cinematography has everything to do with skill and almost nothing about the camera. Technology, colordepth etc. has to do with the camera, but cinematography has nothing to do with technology, it's the painting with light, how you use the the tool and not the tool.

I once got praised for my great cinematography in a short film. They thought that I really did something special with my 35mm.
I had shot it using the first version of the DVX100... without even a 35mm adapter. It wasn't even shown on print.

So, as David mentioned about Slumdog Millionaire, there's not a problem to do great cinematography with a camera that isn't considered the best on the market. Just think about how many cameras the recent 10 years that the Scarlet 8x just surpass in a superior way.
 
you don't have to convince me, brother. you're absolutely correct. and i think we all agree on the benefits of capturing high-quality imagery to improve the viewing of said skill.
 
Wil it possible to shoot Anamorphics on scarlet. to have the bar on the LCD and than crop in post? that would be amazin and save so much time.

Second: What is the big different with RED CF card compare to Sandisk CF CARD
is it better to go with SSD anyway for the Scarlet or CF can do everything perfectly?
 
yeah just normal lenses but having the setting in the menu to have the bar of the anamorphic guide grid. than you go and crop it.
I know with the Lantern in the 5d menu you can have that. it would be the best if the scarlet can have that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top