Product Request: Full-Frame 14mm T1.4 Lens

[Tom Lowe]

David, I believe that Jim's FF35 Monstro will start a new trend in cinema cameras. We have to consider that tens of thousands of young filmmakers are cutting their teeth right now on FF35 Canon 5D Mark II 1080p cameras for example. For these people, as with many still shooters moving into motion, it's hard to go "backwards" toward S35. It's a step down.. a compromise. A "small sensor". A "crop" sensor.

How long does it take to design and bring to market a lens like the 8R? Or this mystical 14mm T1.4 FF35? A couple years? We need to get started!

And again, I think there are plenty of stills shooters would buy EF or Nikon versions.

BTW, this is not to say that all cinema cameras will move to FF35. It will just become another option. Maybe one day 50% of films will be shot on FF35, for example. Who knows. Maybe 70%?

 

[Art Chong]

My only concern with FF35 is that it's just plain hard on the camera crew to get focus and difficult for actors to move around in. I'm doing mostly narrative work with 5DmII's right now, and it's difficult on everyone when we're going in even for a medium-close shot. The actors can't move as much and focus pulling is crazy hard. Maybe this is just me, but S35 or APS-C feels like a really nice compromise between capture size and practical use. That said, there's plenty of DOF with a 14mm lens, so the comment above speaks more to FF35 becoming the "new standard" than the validity of Tom's dream lens itself.

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

I'm not sure a FF 14mm 1.4 is physically possible for a good quality lens... ? The front and rear glass element would be really large no ? maybe larger than the PL mount itself ?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

14mm with T1.4, which would probably amount to about an F1.2 or so, is physically possible. The real issue is designing an optical system that can not only provide a 43mm circle of coverage, but do it with minimal distortion. There are a few options in the 24mm range with F1.4 and larger apertures -- Nikon 24mm f1.4, Voigtlander Nokton 25mm f0.95, etc.. But when focal lengths start getting much shorter than that, it becomes difficult to control distortion in relation to the projected image circle size. 14mm T1.4 exists in C-Mount, B4 2/3", look at RED's mini-primes. But none of those are capable or even remotely designed for the possibility of covering an area as large as the FF35 imager. A 14mm focal length that covers FF35 is out there in various forms. But how to make it "fast" with a larger aperture...? First of all, the lens will have to grow some in order to gather more light. More corrective elements will need to be added to compensate for the larger light-gathering system and larger aperture. Hmmm...

I do think this would be a popular lens if someone would make one. Currently, one would have to target the SLR market to make it worthwhile, I think.. But the design could be made adaptable to any form of housing / common lens mount too..

 

[Joe Taylor]

My girlfriend's brother-in law worked on Hanna in Finland and we spoke several times about several lenses tricked out Arri in England. One was a Leica f0.95. I think it was a 24mm-- certainly not a 14mm, but there are techs out there making some extremely fast custom glass. Most of these are one of a kind though.

 

[Tom Lowe]

There already exsists a very similar lens to this -- 12mm and 14mm Master Primes, T1.3. We are only talking about expanding the sensor coverage a bit.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

A lot. I am so down with this Tom. It would be awesome to get the extremely wide FOV on a longer focal length's perspective at night.

I would think you are right that the large demand from FF35 users would be the key to get this produced. The cine re-housing can come after, though focus breathing would have to be considered before optical design starts.

 

[Brent .T]

Your'e right. there's currently no lens that meets that 3 point criteria:-

1. 14mm focal length

2. T stop speed of 1.4

3. covers FF35

That must mean there's a "gap" in the market. How big or small this gap is, I don't know. Off the top of my head I'm thinking wildlife shooters , no lighting budget 5D mk II (etc) indie shooters using available natural light, and ( if the lens weight can be kept down) documentry/ run'n'gunners, maybe even timelapse. When Monstro comes out this gap gets even bigger but lenses aren't built in anticipation of cameras.

Problem is, David's right too, ... in the narrative cine world, there aren't many FFmovie cameras out there at the moment. what's the percentage of films released shot in industry standard super35 this year? If this lens was designed by industry heavyweights Leica or Zeiss for cine use it'll come with legendary butter smooth follow focus, high tollerances and be expensive. If it's a still lens it could be affordable but maybe breathing issues and an AC's nightmare. Cine mod aside. The CP2's are right in the middle drives people nuts.

Don't get me wrong, I'm hot on this idea

Brent

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

We are only talking about expanding the sensor coverage a bit.

More than you might think. APS-C (and S35) can be covered with a 31mm image circle, which is roughly 750mm^2 image area. A 43mm image circle to cover FF35 is about 1450mm^2. Just something to think about...