Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Super8 Film

Felix K.

Felix K.

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2009
Messages
872
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Germany
Hey everybody!

Every now and then I feel the urge to buy a Super8 camera and shoot stuff :)
Isn't it weird that we discuss the most advance camera technology here and still shooting 8mm seems fascinating? Anybody else got that urge?

Unfortunately I can't afford the costs for developement. Was that always that expensive back in the days?

Greetings,
Felix
 
For about two days, a while back, I was jonesing to shoot some 16mm B&W. I priced some old Arri's and a Bolex, eventually the urge faded away .... saving for Epic-X.
 
Actually I am getting some old 8mm cameras and a splicer.

Mostly I intend to use them as period props, but I've been toying with the idea of shooting them for "old home movies" and possibly for adding grain to digital stuff. Also for fun.

I am also intrigued by the idea of having this stuff scanned at 1080 or 2K resolution. I'm not so sure the whole system can deliver an MTF worthwhile for 2K, but I'm willing to bet you get better than 720p from the stuff.

Practically speaking though, old low end film cameras (like the various 8mm) are a novelty in most cases regardless of the innovations to come in film scanning etc. For normal work usage 16mm on a fairly up to date camera is the starting point - and frankly Epic obviates that except for special circumstances.
 
I have a box full of Super 8 reels to convert to digital format,
anybody have any recommendations on the best method?


I am open to do it yourself solutions or sending it out, since the Bell Howell projector seems to not work so well and needs to be repaired...

Thanks in advance for any feedback... Any suggestions?
 
I'm sure you'll find someone local who can do the job properly. For hobby-level tinkering with super 8 here in the UK I've used http://www.theoldfilmcompany.com/ They'll do fixed price reels including processing and a reasonable telecine to SD file based delivery.
 
John Bellari said:
I am open to do it yourself solutions, Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

You can use my program DANCINES.EXE (tm) maybe this way:

1) Put a microswitch and slow AC motor on the camera using the shutter shaft so that it will single frame advance, or get a super8 Bolex and mill out the back of its pressure plate.

2) The lens in Super8mm movie projectors is Petzval type so you shold be able to put a stop in front of its front element and focus direct onto a DSLR sensor, maybe, or you can put the HDSLR lens front element to front element with the projector lens. You can also use a macro lens, but the Super8mm frame is a bit small for such lenses.

3) Wire a solid state 120vAC relay to the parallel port pins, see the docs in my programs DANCINES.TXT file in the DANCINES.ZIP file.

4) Get a ling USB cable and wire the (Canon) DSLR to your computer, and run the program that is on the camera's CD that lets it capture to harddrive rather than the cameras CF card. Set starting number to zero and 8 digits like, 00000000.CR2, 00000001.CR2, and so on for the image frames.

5) You get best results shooting three sets of frames with the camera in auto bracket mode so you shoot three expsosures of each frame in three colors using color seperation filters (you need to change the light in the projector to a smaller lamp and add a diffuser). Set auto bracket to +1/3 0 -1/3 stop exposure. If the source is high contrast you can increase the bracket. So you get 9 exposures per film frame three red, three green, and three blue. You can go to 27 exposures to get better quality if you want to so you get less digital noise from the DSLR sensor.

6) De-Bayer the camera's "raw" files to 48bpp TIF files. The free DCRAW (tm) program can do that. Adobe has a free "raw" to DNG convertor and another free program that converts DNG to TIF as well.

7) Run the TIF frames through the fuse command in DANCAD87.EXE (tm) to make RGB HDR frames as the starting copy of your scans.

8) Run the starting copy TIF through the CC in DANCAD87.EXE (tm) to get "finished" color corrections.

8a) If you need to edit your shots you can use the NLE in DANCAD87.EXE (tm) to do that, or later edit the AVI made in VirtualDub (tm) using FCP, Avid, Scratch, etc.

9) Run the finished frames through NeatVideo (tm) and dust-busting software as needed.

10) Resize the 4K scans to the needed size, IRFANVIEW (tm) can resize image files well.

11) Make the BMP result resized frames into an uncompressed or H.264 AVI file using free VirtualDub (tm). If you have a WAV audio mix you can add it to the AVI in VirtualDub (tm).

I am working on a new program that will de-Bayer that has some noise reduction that would be useful for cleaning up film scans, although that is not released quite yet.

If you have any questions you can email me, my email is at the top of the pages in my Web site, be sure to include "DIY movie film scanning submission" in the email subject line.
 
Felix K. said:
Unfortunately I can't afford the costs for developement. Was that always that expensive back in the days?
Click to expand...

You can maybe process Super8 yourself as the tank size is small, and the cost per roll maybe under $3 depending on how much water you use.

With ECN you can wipe the jet backing off after processing, then rince the film to get any black bits off, if you process in a tank or on a drum.

Bulk chemicals are still available, although I don't know for how much longer. If you bleach bypass and shorten the development time its just two solutions. CD-3 is used for both chrome and move color negative stocks. Don't use chrome color developer premixed developer on ECN though if it has a fog agent added to avoid the second exposure flash, you will end up with black leader.

The ECN (or chrome for negative cross processing) developer is roughly (you need to do tests and adjust the time and ratios to get a color balance based on the film type, your methods of agitation and so on),

4g CD-3 (about normal value, less gives less density and lower ISO and fog)
2g Sodium Sulfite (always about half as much ad the CD-3, too much gives less color)
4g Sodium Bicarbonate (seems to be for color balance adjustment)
50g Sodium Carbonate (can vary from about 20g to 60g to control EI/ISO with development time)
0.4g Potassium Bromide (can vary from about 0.2 to 2g to control contrast and density, more gives less shadow detail and fog)
Water to make 1000ml, use at 95F for 10 minutes.

The (1st) ECN or Chrome fixer (needed, but you may be able to use BLIX here in its place),

Water 600ml
Ammonium thiosulfate 60% 250ml (do not use more than 250ml as it will slow fixing not speed it)
Sodium Bisulfite 10g
Sodium Sulfite 10g
(10cc 0.01% Kodak Antifog #1 solution may be added to reduce fog from developer carryover but that is optional)
Water to make 1000ml, use 95F for 10 minutes

If you want to bleach the image to get bright colors this will work,

40g Potassium Bromide
40g Potassium Ferrocyanide
Water to make 1000ml, use at 95F for 10 minutes.

The (2nd) ECN or Chrome fixer (only needed if you bleach),

Water 600ml
Ammonium thiosulfate 60% 250ml
Sodium Bisulfite 10g
Sodium Sulfite 10g
Water to make 1000ml, use 95F for 10 minutes

Don't use the 1st fix as the second fix as the developer carry over will stain the film pink when mixed with the bleach carryover.

The bleach formula is not used much anylonger because off water system issues, so you may use an EDTA bleach if you can find one that works.

Kodak (tm) has or had the full "official" formulas on their web site.

Use a 0.02% solution of Sodium Bisulfite for the rince between steps to avoid pink stain.

If you are going to process negative and scan, the absolute color balance is less of an issue since you can grade that out with the DI software if it lets you have fill control over the curves (like mine.)

Those are all very approximate values, as tank processing is not quite like machine processing, so tests would need to be done on parts of a roll shot of a test subject and known EI/ISO until you get the "right" density and color balance, and fog level etc. You shold wear a respirator when handeling dry chemicals since you do not want to breath chemical dust or mist. Use this information at your own risk.

By 'chrome above I mean currently made films that have dye couplers in them, Kodachrome needed three redevelopment solutions with the dye couplers in the second developers, so that is too complex for normal people to DIY, you can get a black and white negative from Kodachrome but there was a silver mask layer that will make the fog level high, the only way around that would be to use a chromagenic developer and the bleach all the silver out. Maybe if you find 1000 rolls of Kodachrome, it would be worth doing a special process for it (you can get other dye couplers still, just not the ones in the last Kodachrome process used).

Older types of 'chrome film need a pre-hardener made with Formaldehyde 37% solution (about 10cc per 1000ml) and Sodium Carbonate (about 25g per 1000ml), or the emulsion can get very soft during processing and rub off or scratch. Formaldehyde gas from the solution is not good to breath, and so you should not use the pre-hardener indoors if at all.
 
We're about to shoot a musicvid on super 8. Was quiet funny when someone came up with the idea, when I was actually thinking shooting Red.

after all, very curious to the see the final results. not sure how we will handle workflow, still figuring out; but find some solutions on the web.
 
Anybody want to buy my old bolex? Just gathering dust in my closet. It had a good life, but I unfortunately begun a love affair with a younger camera :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top