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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

8K Super Hi-Vision

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John Bellari

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http://en.akihabaranews.com/95035/d...compatible-with-super-hi-vision-a-world-first

http://www.pcworld.com/article/228201/sharp_develops_super_highdef_screen_for_future_tv.html

"Japan's Sharp has developed an 85-inch LCD (liquid crystal display) panel with resolution equivalent to 16 times that of today's HDTV panels. The screen, which is only a prototype, was developed for Super Hi-Vision, a next-generation television system currently under development in Japan.

At 7,680 pixels by 4,320 pixels, Super Hi-Vision images will have four times as much detail horizontally and vertically than the best of today's HDTV images.

The system is being developed by Japan's public broadcaster, NHK (Nippon Hoso Kyokai), and demonstrations of early prototypes have shown a very detailed image with beautiful colors. The images are so good, the viewer can feel immersed in a scene in a way not possible with current 3D TV technology."


Is 4K not enough anymore now that Epic 5K is today's tech,
and tomorrow's tech is readying for 8K?

I would speculate passive 3D Side-by-Side at 4K would work well on an 8K set...
 
Well, last year at IBC NHK demo their super high vision systeme, and frankly I wasn't that impress.
Large shot were really ugly and too videoiish for my test.
 
They've been showing this for at least 3 or 4 years now at past NABs. I don't think it's practical for real-world applications, and I still maintain that exposure range is a much bigger issue than resolution per se.
 
4K will be around for a while yet. Lets face it, the rest of the big boys have only JUST started catching up to Red in terms of resolution. You can be almost guaranteed that Red will also be at the forefront of practical uses of 8K if and when it comes. Hell, i am sure the iPhone 2314124 will have a 4K video function built in at some point.

Oh, and in case you forgot, Red also planned to develop a 9K and 28K camera in the future...
 
Ivan Kovax said:
4K will be around for a while yet. Lets face it, the rest of the big boys have only JUST started catching up to Red in terms of resolution. You can be almost guaranteed that Red will also be at the forefront of practical uses of 8K if and when it comes. Hell, i am sure the iPhone 2314124 will have a 4K video function built in at some point.

Oh, and in case you forgot, Red also planned to develop a 9K and 28K camera in the future...
Click to expand...

9K and beyond ... I like what you're saying!
 
Marc Wielage said:
I don't think it's practical for real-world applications.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what everyone was saying when NHK start developing the HDTV back in 1964 and is exactly what everyone was saying about Red and 4K in 2007.


NHK start developing Ultra High Def in 2004. In 2006 they build the first two 8K video cameras. Same year they broadcast the first signal in Ultra High Def. So, today maybe there is "no practical application" for this pioneering technology. But tomorrow is a whole new day.....
 
Christian Munoz D said:
That is exactly what everyone was saying when NHK start developing the HDTV back in 1964 and is exactly what everyone was saying about Red and 4K in 2007.


NHK start developing Ultra High Def in 2004. In 2006 they build the first two 8K video cameras. Same year they broadcast the first signal in Ultra High Def. So, today maybe there is "no practical application" for this pioneering technology. But tomorrow is a whole new day.....
Click to expand...

Yes, but think of what you just said.... HDTV development started back in 1964... it's 2011 and how many homes today still are watching standard def mixed in with their hi-def? More than half of the channels sent out by cable and satellite are standard-def. So that 8K TV-in-the-home "tomorrow" may be fifteen, twenty years away. Let's face it, 1080P will be the highest resolution most people watch in their homes on TV for at least another decade (that doesn't mean that some rich videophiles and early adopters won't jump for anything higher than HD as soon as it is available though -- I'm talking about the average household, the one that just bought an HD set two years ago.)
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Yes, but think of what you just said.... HDTV development started back in 1964... it's 2011 and how many homes today still are watching standard def mixed in with their hi-def? More than half of the channels sent out by cable and satellite are standard-def.
Click to expand...

Good question! Do you, or anyone have the numbers?
Again, is not about today is about tomorrow. If not, why we bother buying and shooting in a 5k Raw camera?
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Let's face it, 1080P will be the highest resolution most people watch in their homes on TV for at least another decade (that doesn't mean that some rich videophiles and early adopters won't jump for anything higher than HD as soon as it is available though -- I'm talking about the average household, the one that just bought an HD set two years ago.)
Click to expand...
As far as broadcast goes, this may be true. But when Red can market a RedRay player at under $500 and 4K TVs cost less than $3K, I think you'll see adoption. I think this will happen before 4K broadcasting. At that point, 1080p will be treated as the new SD, but it will look pretty good upscaled to 4K.
 
David,
I agree with you on that, but I believe you are aware that just a small percentage of the overall productions are made for movie theaters. Also you and everyone of us should be open to the possibility that we are living in a time of change, good times and big changes!!! Even J. Jannard believe 4K will be the standard for Broadcast delivery. If he is right or not, I have no idea... Thinking about doing things for tomorrow do not hurt what we are doing today, at the contrary, it is improved.
 
I'm all for shooting at the highest resolution needed for the maximum viewing experience, present or future. However, I'm not convinced that nothing should be shot at 1080P for TV broadcast on the chance that ten years from now, we'll have 4K in our homes. We've all seen 1080P/2K on giant theater screens, even IMAX, and while it is less than desirable at that scale, it's hard to imagine that 1080P image quality not being acceptable for household TV sets in that 50" size range typically viewed from several feet away. With all the other budget battles that a typical TV show has to go through, even down to what lenses you can afford to rent for the run of production, not to mention the post, it's pretty hard to make the argument to producers that the most important thing they can do for their little half-hour comedy is to shoot and master in 4K. Of course, you can shoot 4K and master in 1080P, but the large proportion of television production is not going to remaster a decade later at 4K, especially if their show had a lot of visual effects added to the image.

I'm all for working at the highest quality level, which is why I pushed to shoot my little movie "Big Sur" on the Epic and I hope to finish it to 4K. But I'm also realistic about things, I shoot a lot of television these days and I see how and where the dollars are spent, and believe me, most producers are not thinking about an audience ten years from now, they are thinking about the audience right now, and they won't spend a dime more than they need to to get their product onto the market. I also don't believe that the average homeowner is going to install a 40' wide screen in their living room and project 4K onto it, and at the typical viewing distances for television, it's hard to see the difference between a 1080P and a 4K image. So I don't see 1080P being pushed out in favor of 4K in the next decade, not when only a third of U.S. households even watch HD as of 2011.

Jim's a visionary, and I'm in favor of his vision of a 4K future because it's a good vision. But I'm also a realist, and look at trends, I talk to people outside of the industry, outside of the major markets, etc. and I honestly don't see 1080P HD going away in the next decade, not for the bulk of TV production and post-production. I see an emerging 4K market, but I see it being limited to videophiles, the wealthy, people who have to use the newest and greatest things, early adopters, etc. and I don't see it dominating over the bulk of TV production. Maybe an expensive Bruckheimer TV show will want to protect for a 4K future because those shows are so visually driven, and maybe the Olympics, the Super Bowl, etc. but does an episode of "Diners, Drive-Ins, and Dives" need to be shown at 4K? Does "Two and a Half Men"? The future will not be one standard, it will be multi-standard.

On my last TV show, I had to fight to be able to shoot in Log mode on the Genesis because the production company and network wanted me to shoot in Rec.709 in-camera to save money on dailies, even if it made the end product a little worse, less film-like, and even if it limited the archivability of the image by baking in Rec.709 gamma. Just to save money on dailies, something that has no real effect on the final product. That's the mentality I have to fight. And on features, I'm still fighting the whole "we can only afford to master in 2K" mentality. Producers automatically budget for it, so when you mention 4K mastering, they just see it as an unnecessary expense.
 
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Got your point David, very clear and precise. Thank you for your detailed explanation.
 
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