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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Pirates of the Caribbean 4

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Iannis Holwech said:
The Sony projectors can only show 2x 2K for 3D in a "over Under" system. So this is only 2K even when using two projectors.

sony2x2k3d2.jpg
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I am afraid I have to disagree - you need to remove the word "only". There are other modes for 3D projections using the SONY's SXRD range then the one you have shown. They are perfectly capable to do full 4K stereo using two projectors...
 
I'm in no way an authority on this topic, but could there have been two projectors side by side, showing separate right and left eye images? From below the projection area, there were two (what looked to be) lenses...we were below and behind, so I couldn't tell for sure.
 
Will be watching it in 3D IMAX tomorrow morning. I am hoping for a nice 3D experience, I hope I am not disappointed. Been watching too many dimensionalised films recently. The last two films I have seen in 3D it truly felt like the glasses were a dongle that I had to wear in order to watch the film. Priest 3D pointless, Thor was OK because at least Asgard looked pretty good in 3D.

Fingers crossed. Regardless, at least it it was shot in 3D and on RED. Its not done very well so far, critically, but haven't seen anyone talk about the 3D.

Haven't seen the third installment though...sure I'll catch up.
 
Just got home from an IMAX 3D presentation of the film. Movie featured all the same issues as the first three (overly long, redundant story elements, uninspired action sequences) with a whole new one, very problematic 3D. The big problem with the 3D in this flick is that, like the other films in the series, it is VERY dark for long stretches of runtime and the tinted glasses made many scenes completely unintelligible. 5/10 for the movie, 3/10 for the 3D.
 
Actually I disagree ... yes there were many dark scenes, but I found it much more watchable in the sense of darkness/glasses than many other 3D movies I've seen lately. (Thor was last I saw before this - where I found myself taking off the glasses at times, which I never did with Pirates). Overall I thought the cinematography was excellent - from the lighting, to shot selection, camera work, no complaints there. And the look was just beautiful overall - perhaps the most beautiful Red shot film yet. It was like film, but better .... clean, sharp and just fantastic overall. Bravo to Red and the huge team that was involved in making this film.

Yes, I still wish the 3D glasses weren't tinted (why is that necessary??) but I think 3D is evolving and I'm excited about that. IMHO, this was the second best film I saw in 3D next to Avatar - but since that was mostly CGI, this new Pirates may be numero uno :)
 
Saw the movie wednesday.

Thought the movie was really awful, and I'm not a 3D fan. The only movie I enjoyed with 3D was Despicable Me. Didn't like it in Avatar, Alice in Wonderland, Tron, Piranha 3D, ...
BUT I have to say, that in Pirates, I thought the 3D wasn't bad, and never distracted me. No, I didn't think it added anything too, but it remained very clear to my eyes (very unlike Tron) and everything was still watchable and I never got annoyed with the 3D, unlike the other movies.
Don't know if that has anything to do with my eyes getting used to 3D, the RED, or the fact that they just used better 3D processes, or a combination of all of these, but congratulations to RED.
BTW, my friends are also not 3D fans, and they liked this one better (3D-wise then, because we all hated the movie) than other 3D movies.
I agree with Anthony, although the movie had a lot of dark scenes, it never became to dark - even with the glasses.
 
i also just came from watching PC4 i have alot of mix feelings about it mostly personal opinion for which i will not criticize another man's work craft! but for the matter of 3D and R3D my opinion is that we still a ways from real good 3D effect, maybe the auto focusing on the epic will help i dont know im not too big on technical things, but overall i would say we are moving rather well in the right direction.
 
I, personally, thought the film was fun! I'm a big fan of the original, and this felt very much like that. We can't be tied to characters that don't have a future in the series like Turner, Swan, and Norington...we already know their fates. The film is about the true pirates, making Sparrow, Gibbs, and Barbosa the kind of people we love to see continue helming the series. I thought the Cruz/Depp dynamic worked- and while the film was totally self-aware, playing on recycled jokes, music cues, and predicaments- those things worked too. I get a sense that these people have been together for decades which makes me feel good about their future. These are the jokes and situations we love about Pirates anyway. Going in expecting anything more is setting yourself up for a bad experience.

Technically, I thought the film looked great. Kudos to the color team on making it seamlessly match the originals. I do think, however, that they could have done better on the 3D front. I thought the film had good intentions, and even good execution some of the time, but the convergence was set wrong (to my eyes) for a lot of the movie. The shot subject was always placed at the point of convergence rather than deeper into the z field. I would have appreciated more depth beyond the window than we got- especially in IMAX because of how large the image is and how close to the screen the audience is. We were visually assaulted with changing depths and convergences within a scene, and the closeup action shots just didn't work in IMAX at all. They missed some great 3D opportunities with the water droplets in the jungle (you'll know what I mean if you've seen it) as well as underwater with the mermaids. I can't imagine how tough it is as a DP having to think of framing for the IMAX format for the aforementioned size and distance reasons while also having to take in to consideration the more widely viewed format of traditional 2D and even RealD on standard screen sizes and viewing distances. I think James Cameron had it right by having a "full frame" IMAX Experience (16x9) framing and then creating a traditional scope (2.39) extraction. The extra height of the image while keeping the scale of the subjects in frame certainly helped AVATAR in a way I felt Pirates missed out on.

As a final note, IMAX should know better than to accept 2k on screens as big as theirs. Our IMAX Experience theater here in town was acceptable, but text on-screen clearly showed the resolution limitations of the system installed. It didn't bother me too much except when there was text on-screen. The location titles, preview slugs, etc.
 
Seems like a lot of people are having mixed feelings about the new Pirates... I admit, I'm having some and I haven't seen it yet. I'm going to see it tonight, though.

Question for the guys seeing it in "IMAX"... Why bother? I personally can't stand the linear-polarized glasses and it's not like their 2K projection is any better quality than anyone else...
 
To me it's about the size of the image, and being enveloped in quality sound- not to mention screen brightness and fewer issues with motion blur because of the twin-projector system. Where I come from, the other theaters are shoddy at best. A crystal clear, bright digital projection on an a large screen is the way to go. I'll be seeing Super 8 that way even though it isn't 3D.
 
I am watching it at the DGA in 3D. Does anyone know what system they have there right now?

I read they upgraded to Barco DP-3000 projectors back in 2009, along with a 3-D conversion kit and Dolby Digital Cinema Servers. Is that still the system in use?

Edit:
I called. It sounds like that's the setup for theater #1, while theater #2 has a Barco 32-B.
(2k right now, but they are hoping to get the new 4k chips some time around Sept-Oct)
 
ChrisLyon said:
I, personally, thought the film was fun! I'm a big fan of the original, and this felt very much like that. We can't be tied to characters that don't have a future in the series like Turner, Swan, and Norington...we already know their fates. The film is about the true pirates, making Sparrow, Gibbs, and Barbosa the kind of people we love to see continue helming the series. I thought the Cruz/Depp dynamic worked- and while the film was totally self-aware, playing on recycled jokes, music cues, and predicaments- those things worked too. I get a sense that these people have been together for decades which makes me feel good about their future. These are the jokes and situations we love about Pirates anyway. Going in expecting anything more is setting yourself up for a bad experience.

Technically, I thought the film looked great. Kudos to the color team on making it seamlessly match the originals. I do think, however, that they could have done better on the 3D front. I thought the film had good intentions, and even good execution some of the time, but the convergence was set wrong (to my eyes) for a lot of the movie. The shot subject was always placed at the point of convergence rather than deeper into the z field. I would have appreciated more depth beyond the window than we got- especially in IMAX because of how large the image is and how close to the screen the audience is. We were visually assaulted with changing depths and convergences within a scene, and the closeup action shots just didn't work in IMAX at all. They missed some great 3D opportunities with the water droplets in the jungle (you'll know what I mean if you've seen it) as well as underwater with the mermaids. I can't imagine how tough it is as a DP having to think of framing for the IMAX format for the aforementioned size and distance reasons while also having to take in to consideration the more widely viewed format of traditional 2D and even RealD on standard screen sizes and viewing distances. I think James Cameron had it right by having a "full frame" IMAX Experience (16x9) framing and then creating a traditional scope (2.39) extraction. The extra height of the image while keeping the scale of the subjects in frame certainly helped AVATAR in a way I felt Pirates missed out on.

As a final note, IMAX should know better than to accept 2k on screens as big as theirs. Our IMAX Experience theater here in town was acceptable, but text on-screen clearly showed the resolution limitations of the system installed. It didn't bother me too much except when there was text on-screen. The location titles, preview slugs, etc.
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Good post Chris - even though I felt like it was better executed on a 3D level than many films I've seen, you're right - there were definitely some opportunities for the 3D to be more immersive. Sometimes I was craving that and it actually felt almost 2D to me. As you said the mermaids and some of the jungle scenes were a good example, where you could have been sucked into the scene better by the 3D effect ... and instead it was a bit more flat.

Still, I think a great job - one of the most visually beautiful films I've seen in a while and I'm sure those shooting 3D features now are learning and adjusting accordingly.
 
I thought it looked great, it was nice to see a Red-shot movie where the skintones and other colors were rich and film-like, not that brown and teal look you used to see on early Red movies. I'd say that 95% of it looked like really fine-grained film, there were no contrast problems in scenes with torches and candles, etc.

There were a few day exteriors with some clippiness in white sheets in sunlight, for example, but of course, filming on the ocean on a clear day on a ship or at shore with white waves can be the most challenging contrast problems for anyone, even if shooting on film. I can imagine that Darius Wolski must have been very happy with how the MX sensor performed.
 
+ 1 what David said.

I thought it was one of the best looking M-X movies I have seen so far... also LOVED the sound FX design done by my friend David Hughes right here in Portland, OR
 
Maybe it was the IMAX DMR process, but I saw a LOT of highlight clipping throughout the run time on the film.
 
Steve Freebairn said:
If you saw clipping highlights, it was done in post or something so bright nothing would have held it. Darius and Jeroen we're extremely careful about exposure. This should be some of the finest MX footage you've ever seen.
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Not sure if that's true -- the clipping I saw didn't appear to be a creative choice, it was just clipped. Look at the scene where Barbarosa is sitting on the deck of his ship with a white tablecloth on a table for example. And at times, parts of Jack's white shirt had clippy bits on it in the dappled jungle daylight. Or look at the white waves when Jack is running along the shore. Nothing offensive, but I doubt that there was detail there and a decision was made to remove it in post and make it a blobby bit of clipped-looking area where the texture disappears. These were pretty extreme high-contrast situations so I'm not surprised by a bit of clippiness. But all in all, there wasn't as much clippiness as I've seen in most digitally shot movies, it was very film-like most of the time. I was very impressed, but to say that there wasn't a single digital artifact in the movie is pushing things a bit.

The M-X sensor is very good, but to say that it clips at the same point that film negative would burn out to white, that it has the same DR, is something that even Red wouldn't claim.
 
I probably over stated what I meant to say David. If when someone sees P4, there are lots of shots clipped, then it's something wrong in the projection/viewing. I'm sure there are a few shots that were clipped during acquisition due to the conditions, but very very few. Having seen the raw footage for the project, I can assure you that most of the footage lived on the lower end of the sensor. Let's just say that Darius (super talented) tends to like things not overly lit.
 
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