Color Correct Comp elements seperately? HELP!

[curtis_liquid9]

Does anyone know if there is a color correction program that allows me to color correct comp layers seperately. We are doing a project that we are having to comp the layers in After Effects, but I want to be able to color correct the layers to give our graphics guys. I want to be able to do a rough comp in something like color or storm and then give them both the foreground and background layers color corrected seperately.

And yes, I know we shouldn't be doing this in After Effects, but it is our only option. Ideas?

 

[jake blackstone]

Ideas yes, but not till June. Resolve 8 will sport multilayered timeline, so you will be able to do it then. Right now, nothing inexpensive.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Ideas? You have the wrong workflow in mind.

Don't color correct anything before it goes to the compositor.

You should try to give the compositor original camera or CG source materials where practical. Don't apply any conversion to these source materials. If you are trying to composite MiniDV footage into a RED project ... then don't upconvert or resample color or any of that. Just hand over the camera footage as "raw" MiniDV in the .dv format. (That's an extreme example ... its just for illustration.)

You should designate a photographic source - your choice, but usually the source with the actors- as the basis. This is the "plate." Then the compositor should color correct all additional elements to match the plate.

If you must break this rule, then have as soft a touch as practical. For example ... if some of your material is on the edge of clipping, then correct that before output. But that's it ... don't apply a look or any thing else. Just technical corrections aimed at preserving data.

That said, if you know what your intended final look is, then your colorist should create that look as best possible on the plate, and hand that over IN ADDITION to the unaltered original source material, as a guide. In fact if you can output an ASC CDL or the like that's good too. The compositor can use this as a guide. A lot of compositors will apply a LUT or color correction node to the composite to preview how their composite will look after the colorist handles it. Then they remove the LUT or color correction node before they create the final output.

In this way the compositor can understand better if their choices lend themselves to the intended final look.

Note the compositor is not really color correcting the shot ... they are simply making the various elements match the plate as they add them in.

All decent composite applications have this functionality built in. Even After Effects. The controls usually look alien to a colorist- but it does the same basic stuff.

This sort of integration is part of the job of the compositor. The compositor is responsible for making the various elements seamlessly integrate with the plate- ideally so well that it appears to all have been photographed that way. (Never really happens, but that is the goal.)

In order to make the colorists job easier later, ask for a very high bit depth low compression output from the compositor - like 16 bit OpenEXR. Ideally your compositors output will be at a higher bit depth and lower compression than any of the source materials you hand them (except possibly CG elements). In any case the output definitely should NOT be chroma subsampled. (i.e. it should be 4:4:4 )

You should then hand the fully composited shot to the colorist, who then treats it as any other shot in the film.

 

[J M Ferros]

Scratch can do it. It is currently the only specialist grading system that can, although others will follow soon.

Disclaimer - I work for Assimilate

 

[jake blackstone]

Scratch can do it. It is currently the only specialist grading system that can, although others will follow soon.

Disclaimer - I work for Assimilate

Well, that's just a silly statement. Baselight, FilmMaster, Lustre have already being doing it for at least couple of years and an upcoming Resolve 8 can do a multilayered timeline grading as well.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Even with multi-layer timeline grading ... the fundamental question is why you'd composite with the colorist.

I suppose if its a trivial composite ... then why not? Saves a little time, maybe a little cash.

In my mind however, if you can not accomplish the composite end to end in the NLE (or grading application) then you should accomplish the entire composite with, you know ... the compositor.

Especially when you are having the shot done by a compositor already in a composite application.

As a compositor I expect to have to turn in my various elements, but also my finished composite.

My elements are really there in case they need to alter the shot later, and can't come back to me for some reason.

The finished comp is for the colorist.

So, to the original poster - send your unaltered source materials to the compositor. Let them do everything in After Effects. Give the colorist the finished composite to grade.

About the only time I want layers as a colorist is if something is very hard to qualify for secondaries. Then I want the roto done, not in my grading application, to serve as a secondary selection. If I have separate elements, and a multilayer grading system, then I can fiddle more freely.

This is still the opposite of the original idea. Originally the poster wanted to CC elements before sending them for composite. That's bass ackwards to me.

Even in the circumstance where I want the colorist to do the correction on elements ... I want finished elements that have been unaltered color-wise to give the colorist. A simple layer stack with alphas that is otherwise a completed composite.

 

[JPSendall]

Just a quick question. Do some people do all the compositing work, getting the edge right and so on and then export with the alpha channel clear just in case some more drastic thing needs doing grading wise and then composite after the initial grade? I can't see that compromising the composite unless some type of CC might degenerate the primary layers edges?

 

[jake blackstone]

Just get Smoke or Flame and go to town. Grade, relight and composite at any point in the process. That's where the post process is going...

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Just get Smoke or Flame and go to town. Grade, relight and composite at any point in the process. That's where the post process is going...

I think that's where post technology is going, but I think the human operators will still need to be specialists, and I think we should be looking at specialist tools for some time to come yet.

Now, while I think we will still need specialists ... I am afraid that the market direction will follow the technology to the jack of all trades.

I think the human beings who can really master the entire workflow for post are going to be VERY rare.

Now, I happen to be the sort of arrogant soul who believes he'll be able to master all these specialties and more ... but at least I have the sense to know that the road ahead is still longer than the road behind me.

I think coloring is going to become an endangered specialty first - which saddens me because I find it the most enjoyable. Tools like Final Cut Pro X with automatic matching scene to scene are going to alter a lot of the basic workload for our specialty, with their automated shot to shot matching. I believe that most shots need matching and exposure tweaks as opposed to a real treatment. Together with tools like Magic Bullet Looks fewer productions will need my services as "just" a colorist. As that goes on ... fewer producers will know what a "real" colorist can do for their shows.

(And I am so looking forward to the "Comic Sans" of coloring that's going to emerge as people start to think, "its easy, just click here and there. Done!")

There are going to be fewer jobs in coloring and more of them will be high end jobs with real "golden eye" specialists with resumes a mile long. Features and major narrative dramas for the most part I expect.

This is a pity ... because we have an emerging technological opportunity for the colorist, compositor and editor to be using the same software to achieve their specialized goals, which is sort of an interchange panacea.