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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Testing EPIC-M and ALEXA - suggestions?

J

Justin Mitchell

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Hey All-

Tomorrow, me and some DP/AC friends will be shooting/testing with my EPIC-M along side with my buddy's ALEXA. This is not a shoot-out or a 'what's the better camera' test, but hopefully a straight forward look at what both the cameras can do with as little bias as possible.

I'm wondering if anyone out there who has already had a chance to do similar tests could share any suggestions/words of wisdom/experience so that we can make this test as productive as possible. Be as detailed as you want. My main concerns are not so much in how/what we shoot but in how and what we do to the footage in post.

Also, any suggestions on what sort of side by side visuals you'd like to see are welcome.

We'll be testing green screen, DR range, etc.

thanks-

Justin
 
What I would do, would be to test them in he extremes to learn where which camera excells.

AND I would most defenitely be testing high contrast situations and horisontal movement in high contrast situations at different speed.

But these are just hunches.

I would be AB'ing for keying, too if that is of any relevance.

Cheers
Gunleik
 
Make sure you have the current build 31974 with newest black shade calibration. I would not do any side by side without this build.

Make sure you shoot some HDRx and hold the results until you are given Graeme's newest magic sauce. View all results on a big screen.

Jim
 
The big screen advice is a good one. But it has to be added: If that is of any relevance....

I happen to think that the A does so many silly tricks to achieve it's DR that those tricks may affect its performance in significant ways for many real life situations...
 
It'd be nice to see charts next to skin (resolution and DR charts alone fail to show the full truth).
I'd shoot in a variety of high contrast lighting situations (perhaps partially backlit exteriors)... that and lowlight.
Also - maybe bring some kevlar as this is obviously a loaded subject with zealots on both side :biggrin:
 
Copy that. Build 31974 is installed. Will wait to grade HDRx until Graeme's newest.
 
And if you feel the need to match the highlight softness of an Alexa, just add a .5 low con filter to the EPIC. It seems to be a close match to the OLPF of the Alexa. Just with lots more resolution.

Jim
 
apart from test charts I would also be very interested to shoot quite a few 'real life' scenarios. exteriors daylight, skintones (huge issue), tungsten vs. hmi et.
because this is where you want to see if the camera does for you what you want it to do.

I personally never get paid to shoot test charts or for pushing the limits of a camera every time. It is important that the camera performs
best in the real time situation that I face on set every day. This is where it will show if my client and I are happy - or not...

Can't wait to get you impressions on that.

Oh - and also do a handheld and packing test. Because believe it or not - there are quite a few people out there for which
the weight of a camera and the size of the kit is quite important...

(I have a suspicion who might win that one :-)
 
jake blackstone said:
Unfortunately, comparing C-log Prores with RAW is a bit of unfair in any kind of comparison...
Click to expand...
Although from a purist perspective, I agree with you that it might be a better comparison to see the best of what the two cameras can offer, the reality is that a lot of productions are using the Alexa in Log-C ProRes 444 to the SxS cards. So, if I were doing a test I'd actually want to shoot multiple recording modes. ArriRAW uncompressed, Loc-C ProRes 444 and HQ, etc. And on Epic, I would shoot multiple compression ratios as well for comparison. And make sure to keep really detailed notes along the way. It's time consuming to do a good, thorough test. And the test needs to be for You, as any test will always be questioned if people weren't there first hand to witness it. :-)
 
Jannard said:
Just with lots more resolution.

Jim
Click to expand...

Always have to throw that one in there ... eh, Jim? I don't blame you ... can't wait for Red's 4k projector and other 4k solutions to hit the market. After seeing Tattoo and other 4k projection at NAB, all this 1080p stuff is getting old :P
 
Justin... you don't have the new 31974 build. We'll try to package it up and get it to you. Make sure you do a black calibration after installing and before any testing. This is a very significant build. Those who are happy with EPIC images so far haven't seen anything yet.

Jim
 
And don't get into a situation where you're comparing video taps. Make sure you compare the Red RAW images, correctly processed in RCX. So over hearing complaints about Red footage processed at REC709. I'm making a T-shirt "It's NOT a video camera!"
 
Shane Betts said:
And don't get into a situation where you're comparing video taps. Make sure you compare the Red RAW images, correctly processed in RCX. So over hearing complaints about Red footage processed at REC709. I'm making a T-shirt "It's NOT a video camera!"
Click to expand...
Reality is, often times it is being used like a video camera, and video taps ARE a part of the equation on a lot of jobs. The key is to know what that tap shows you, what it doesn't, and have a clear understanding amongst everyone on set of what they are looking at. And like you said, when in doubt, load images into a properly calibrated DIT system and check for color accuracy, dynamic range, etc. One big advantage of the Epic over the R1 is the ability to split the outputs so you can display different LUTs. Same with Alexa.
 
axel ebermann said:
needing an additional 60k recorder to even record in Raw could also be considered kind of unfair :-)
Click to expand...

We're talking about here the technology and imaging quality, not finances. Yes, it's silly, that Alexa requires very expensive recorder, that costs almost as much as camera itself in order to be able to record RAW.. Nevertheless, if you want to compare apples to apples or at least as close as it is possible, comparing highly compressed codec (Prores) to RAW is not really a valid test. May be it was not the best choice of words, when I used the word fair. More appropriate would have been ... well... inappropriate:-)
 
This might be a bit off topic, but with all this talk of using 1/2 Low Con to get the "Alexa Look" has anyone got a link to where you can get a Low Con that would do this. Any tips for brands? Would really like to give one a try in comparison to an Alexa as many DPs really seem to like that look.
 
Sam Winzar said:
This might be a bit off topic, but with all this talk of using 1/2 Low Con to get the "Alexa Look" has anyone got a link to where you can get a Low Con that would do this. Any tips for brands? Would really like to give one a try in comparison to an Alexa as many DPs really seem to like that look.
Click to expand...
http://www.filmtools.com/lowcontrast.html

Other tricks to to getting softer, more diffused looks. http://www.thedopshop.com/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=53
 
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