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FCP > Color > 4k Output Total Frustration - Pls Help I'm going nuts!!

ignition

ignition

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Hey Folks

I've spent the last 3 days reading around on various workflows and techniques trying to overcome a frustrating problem and am still having no luck, hence posting here hoping somebody might be able to shed light as I'm fast running out of time to deliver this project.

I have a project shot in 4K which I am editing - the process I've used is as follows:
1. All media folders copied in their original format to the HD
2. In FCP I simply imported the folder (which brought in all the directories and related QT proxies created on the camera)
3. I went ahead and built 1k sequences by using the _M proxy files
4. The edit is now finished to a point I want to color grade it and output a final to review how it looks... here is where my trouble starts

I've read that using the proxies is fine as when you Send To > COLOR it will automatically use the RAW R3D files instead.

What I've tried so far...
1. Simply Send To > COLOR, grade and then export ProRes 4444 from Color directly
1. Trying to offline the project, L&T some media (to native R3D), re-link the native versions, export to COLOR
2. Export XML from sequence, use ClipFinder 2.2 to replace the _M proxies with the _F proxies, reimport to FC and then to COLOR
3. Open COLOR directly and import the ClipFinder fixed XML (with _F proxies)

From Color I'm trying to output either a 2K or 4K QT ProRes 4444 to review it (in a Quicktime player) ... however the output quality is less than satisfactory, in fact, despite trying to go 2K or 4K the resultant video doesn't look any better than the 1K version upscaled..

It seems Color continues to use the proxy version of the files rather than exporting via the raw R3D files... (or, its using the RAW files as source, but maintaining the proxy limitations on quality)

Strangely, when I open the ClipFinder modified XML into Color (using 4k _F proxies), and set the project size to 4K, when I inspect the Geometry window it tells me the scale is 0.5 instead of 1.. setting it to 1 causes the image to be half the size of the frame... yet the _F proxy is 4k (right?), so why isn't the geometry = 1 if the project size is the same as the media size?

My comparison point is loading up the same footage in RedCine X directly and reviewing it, and then exporting from Redcine-X to the same res/format (PR4444)... when I open the exported clip from RCX in Quicktime and watch it, it looks beautiful - crisp and clean - yet the same res/format exports from Color looked blurred and downgraded.

I suspected perhaps something to do with debayer options (??) but I couldn't find anywhere in COLOR that controlled this..

Bottom line is, source footage in RCX and exports from there look awesome ... anything I try to export from my FCP timeline to Color, or loading XMLs directly in Color, seems to deliver significantly degraded results.

From what I've read, yes I should have used FCP's L&T function to bring the data in and edit with that.. is my edit now screwed because I started with proxy files and regardless of reading RAW sources Color will always be referencing via the (lower quality?) proxies?

Any advice on this would be enormously appreciated... I am sure if I keep digging around I might come across a solution as it will have been covered somewhere but I am so close to being overdue on this project I'm hoping somebody might be able to shortcut this process and save my butt.. (I am not a big fan of people who simply pose questions on forums without doing their own legwork to solutions already covered elsewhere...)

Many thanks,
Darren
 
Try the User Prefs tab. That's where the debayer controls are hidden, at that point send to color should work if you're editing with proxies.
 
A couple things to be aware of:
1) Like Jake said, check your "Render Proxies" setting. It defaults to some odd settings.

2) Color applies *NO* sharpening in the debayer. So if your issue is sharpness (Which it is, at least partially, judging by your comment that RC-X outputs look "crisp") be aware that you'll need to do some sharpening via the ColorFX room. Tiny amounts make an amazing amount of difference.
 
Jake and Ben, thanks for your replies... It turns out part of my problem is having 4.5k footage 2.35:1 ... obviously Color doesn't support >4k outputs directly (hence looking at 2k upscaled when attempting 4k output from color?), and of course FCP has a 2k limit.. working around this it seems a workflow from FCP > RedCine might be my best option, although still getting to grips with the most efficient process there...

Not sure if anyone knows, but if I decide to run via COLOR in 2k, using the H proxies and a sequence setting of 2240x960 to maintain aspect ratio, is FCP going to still downscale this, given technically 2240 wide breaks the 2k barrier... review of the PR4 outputs in Colors media directory, versus the output from color rendered out again via FCP confirms this.. Color's rendered clips are 2240x960 as expected, however FCP outputs a 2048x1024 clip. I'm not a big fan of going outside of derivative size changes.. downscaling by a derivative other than 1/4, 1/2, etc. is always going to produce less than desirable results.

Does anyone have any experience with 4.5k workflows through FCP>Color>FCP?
 
Transcode your r3d in redcineX using redcolor2 redgamma2 or... what best suits your post workflow to dpx Either in 4k or in 2k. Depending of your output.

So you have a full debayer.

This can be tricky to conform but works. The one who made the decision to shoot 4.5k with a color postproduction should be blamed! ;)

Pat
 
Maybe double check the project setting in Color and the rendering resolution setting?
4K files are hard to judge if you don't have the 4K display. The resolution will change only when you blow up if you are monitoring only in HD.
 
Darren Vukasinovic said:
Jake and Ben, thanks for your replies... It turns out part of my problem is having 4.5k footage 2.35:1 ...
Click to expand...

Oof. Yeah, if you're using 4.5K you're gonna have to get creative. I would do a one-light in RC-X and then the final grade on those renders.

Note that FCP *CAN* read 4K files. Just not 4K RED. I've done a 4K out and had the files read into FCP. Admittedly it was a 1080 sequence, but still.
 
I too am working on a project that was shot 4.5K. When I bring the project into Color the clips look soft. Especially the clips that were blown up to 200% in FCP. If I look at the proxy files they are WAY sharper. Looked for the "debayer" setting in COlor and did not see one. Render is set to full however. If I try and import an EDL or FCP XML into Redcine X build 454 Mac 64 it crashes every time.

WOuld this work better in Resolve?
 
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