Epic-M presentation and coming bootcamp in Paris

[Arnaud Paris]

LocaRed, first company to have introduced the R1 cameras in France, will be holding a presentation with its Epic-M this saturday showing Paris footage and several workflow solutions to demonstrate the amazing potential of this camera.

At this occasion will also be announced several 'Epic Bootcamp' sessions taking place in Paris this spring/summer and open to international audience (classes will be taught in english).

If you are interested in attending this presentation or would like more information about the coming Epic Bootcamp sessions please visit www.locared.com

The presentation is already attracting a lot of people and the number of seats is limited, so don't wait too long for RSVP (7mai2011@locared.com).

 

[Tai Wah Lim]

Arno, seems like yesterday when I went to your bootcamp for R1 in Paris. You were maybe an early pioneer conducting a lesson on shooting 3D with Reds with your rig then. Will you be doing a 3D class again? Will you be putting the Epic on your helicopter this time? Lim

 

[Meddy MOST]

finally someone has the EPIC in the middle of Europe ! Congrats Arnaud

 

[Rémi Sello]

I apologize in advance because i'm going to be rude.

This presentation was a JOKE.

Tattoo was displayed on a 800x600 consumer projector with sun coming into the room (you could barely see anything) and then the speaker presented Epic-M with so much wrong infos that anyone reading this forum would have screamed (and some actually did). We also had a terrible demonstration of "epic footage shot in paris" which could be also renamed as "i shot 8s of Champs Elysées in sunshine at F22" (yeah, no ND !). It looked like a Sony Z1. HDRx demonstration was 3 poorly handheld clips of a foutain and... wait for it... 2 of them weren't even composited in HDRx ! We saw the normal track, then the HDRx track, and voilà. Then the speaker said that motion blur was still a problem ; he wasn't aware of the difference between magic motion & MNMB... HDRx looked like a gadget.

The main purpose of this "event" (starting 9:30, they said "be on time", and we only got into the room at 10:00) was to advertise for the two training sessions Locared intend to sell (> 2000€ each) at the end of the month. Training like that? No thank you.

We were at least a few true redusers, correcting the speaker many times and ashamed of the footage shown on the poor projection. When I think about all the wonderful HDRx footage available over here (the barndoor walk, the vegas shot, some of Mike Seymour aerial), it was just a painful moment. I'm so disappointed by the vision Locared gave to the people that came to learn about Epic...

I could say so much more and add a lot of quotes, but I'll just finish with the operator's conclusion : "If I had a feature to shoot tomorrow, I wouldn't go with Epic". :shocked: That says it all.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Obviously, Red can't totally prevent people from giving presentations or sharing about their cameras -- or even holding workshops. But if what you're saying is true, it speaks to the need for a "certification" from Red that ensures the camera, workflow and overall teaching process be presented correctly. Nothing is worse that a camera being misrepresented and made to look bad, it harms the brand.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I am sure this guys did the best they could, in the best of their intentions, and for FREE, we have done presentations across the US
and will continue to do them Globally, in our EPIC GLOBAL TOUR starting this month.

Trying to make it to France to attend Cannes, not sure we'll make it in time, but we'll try, Italy of course as my country of origin and the HQ of our first Studios,
will have several presentation on a regular basis do to housing our own Film and Photography FREE School, at the same time, in our travels,
we'll have presentations in major cities across Europe, including of course beautiful Paris...

Presentations might include 3D, with either of our 3D rigs form ET or E3D.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

I am sure this guys did the best they could, in the best of their intentions, and for FREE, we have done presentations across the US
and will continue to do them Globally, in our EPIC GLOBAL TOUR starting this month.

Trying to make it to France to attend Cannes, not sure we'll make it in time, but we'll try, Italy of course as my country of origin and the HQ of our first Studios,
will have several presentation on a regular basis do to housing our own Film and Photography FREE School, at the same time, in our travels,
we'll have presentations in major cities across Europe, including of course beautiful Paris...

Presentations might include 3D, with either of our 3D rigs form ET or E3D.

Yes, Ketch -- I don't want to presume it was bad (notice I said "IF"), and I know it was free. It's not always easy to hold demonstrations or events. Again, I don't
know the truth but I think my point still stands, for those who want to teach about the Epic -- it might be good for Red to certify people, or perhaps make it a part of Reducation.
Obviously not everyone could attend ... and obviously some non-certified people would still be amazing teachers, but at least certification could offer people perhaps
a better assurance of quality and accuracy with workshops and teachings.

And of course, for you it would never be an issue either way because of your impeccable reputation and dedication to mastering and communicating just as Red
would ... but once there are 10,000+ Epics out in the wild I think more and more will be throwing their hat into the teaching arena -- and so having some measure
for quality assurance would be valuable, IMHO.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Yes, Ketch -- I don't want to presume it was bad (notice I said "IF"), and I know it was free. It's not always easy to hold demonstrations or events. Again, I don't
know the truth but I think my point still stands, for those who want to teach about the Epic -- it might be good for Red to certify people, or perhaps make it a part of Reducation.
Obviously not everyone could attend ... and obviously some non-certified people would still be amazing teachers, but at least certification could offer people perhaps
a better assurance of quality and accuracy with workshops and teachings.

And of course, for you it would never be an issue either way because of your impeccable reputation and dedication to mastering and communicating just as Red
would ... but once there are 10,000+ Epics out in the wild I think more and more will be throwing their hat into the teaching arena -- and so having some measure
for quality assurance would be valuable, IMHO.

Completely agree, and I thank you for the kind words of confidence...

My replay was set in general and of course not directed at your reply, but I agree, no matter the enthusiasm all of us have share, we should not commit
to show something and or teach others on something that we really have yet to learn ourselves, and be careful to how we present both
our selves and the product we wish to present and or represent.

Rival companies and some Rental houses already do a great job on putting down RED so we must be extremely cautious on how we do present RED's products
to the general public and or Companies, as this could not only work against our own interest but to that of RED as well.

Either way we look forward in making RED proud with KETCH ROSSi STUDiOS in Italy and else were, with our services and the way we will not only offer RED products
in our work but via the way we will teach others about RED products in all kind of productions from small to large to very large, form Motion capture to
Still capture to Still/Motion, fun times await us, that is a FACT!!

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

If people are fool enough to take paid trainings on a reeeeaaaaally easy to use camera and workflow... I may organize some trainings too.

More seriously, I was at locared the day before the event, and one guy I (barely) spoke with wasn't aware of all
the accessories we can see here on Reduser. Damn this is maybe the only thing I care right now, because accessories are
the only thing we can purchase yet.

I think they may not be field Red user, but an alternative rental company only.

When I think I may not have my epic X for the Warhammer 40 000 short I'm preparing this summer... Reading Remi overview of Locared event is painful, as I'm sure most of the DP inside the room were not Red camer users, and sadly won't ever be if the event was that unprepared.

Let's hear what Arnaud have to say ?

 

[Arnaud Paris]

FACTS:

1) we mentioned that the screening conditions were not optimal because we were playing from a MacBook pro the 2K file under x264 compression onto a 1080p projector (so it was not 800x600) in a room that could not be put to complete dark, and that the Tattoo short was shown so that we could discuss the fact that it was done in 10 days and therefore that a serious 5k post workflow was available (post is something that a lot of people questioned in France about Red)

2) same thing for the screening of HDRx tests: the point was to show that the two tracks of information were there on the camera working and that of course in post these tracks were was supposed to be carefully graded together to extract as much relevant info as possible; most of the people that interacted with us at this event understood HDRx and the potential of such feature and it was not in any way seen or presented as a gadget.

3) we've been straight forward with everybody during the presentation that we just got the Epic a few days before and that this was a first of several events to share our knowledge about the camera as we experienced it, we mentioned the features that were not available yet, the ones to come soon, and how this camera could be used on a serious project including a post-workflow

4) we've been training more than 100 ACs/operators on Red over the last few years in France and we were the first to do it (while most of the people in France were saying that this camera was a JOKE or a SCAM) and a lot of people were happy that we be able to do so and are asking us to do the same for the Epic, this presentation was also for all those people and we were thanked for this

5) all our events have always been for free, we've done many and yes we can't pay everytime a DCP 500 seats room to share information about the Red cameras like we did on many occasions (Publicis, Aquaboulevard with Ted, to cite some of them)

6) The DP was involved in the Q&A never said what is reported here by Rémi, he only said that there were a few more features that he was waiting to be enabled to go and shoot some projects like higher frame rates.

CONCLUSION: Rémi, if putting this event together was of not interest to you because you already knew everything about the Epic from RedUser you should consider the fact that a lot of people coming to the event did not even know about the camera being actually available from Red, nor did they understood what HDRx was, nor did they think that a post-workflow was already working for the Epic. And most of the people were happy and did thank us for putting this event together.

About the screening of Tattoo, we did not discuss the movie's quality after the screening, and nobody in the audience did, probably because everybody (but you) understood that the movie would probably have looked better in a completely dark room with calibrated 2K or 4K DCP projection. So if you're point is trying to tell Red on us for showing Tattoo in a non fully dark room in HD from a MacBookPro, great go ahead. But Red also knows that people have what is called common sense (even in France) and if you show a movie to prove that can be procuded and postproduced with good results (and again nobody questioned it after the screening) within 10 days (and I detailed their production schedule to prove it using Michael Cioni article) and that the 5k post-workflow is there to handle it, then the point is made.

Some of your arguments are strange Rémi, like complaining about the fact that it starts a bit after the official time. When we say an event will start à 9:30 and we wait 15mn more (not 30) for the late people, come on, what is so strange about this? Your FUD altogether here on reduser is a bit strange, and you're saying stuff so untrue that one might really wonder what is your real agenda here snapping at LocaRed like this.

So if this event means a JOKE to you then I guess we're just back to the old story about the Red being considered a JOKE when it came out especially by people that had an agenda against Red. Except that a lot of people thanked LocaRed and StereoCorp3D for putting together this event. I'm sorry you're not one of them, maybe you should go to the other events done about Red cameras in France... oh wait there is none and there has never been any other company putting so much time, efforts and money to do such events about Red in France to my knowledge.

 

[Rémi Sello]

I may know a lot about EPIC by following reduser, but when I read your announcement I also read "showing Paris footage and several workflow solutions to demonstrate the amazing potential of this camera". I came for that, and I got a 8s clip shot at F22.

You're right, a lot of people didn't knew about that camera. There was so much to say, so much to show, so much to explain, so much to look at, so much to discuss. It was a great occasion to clarify so much things... That's why your flyed over presentation disappointed me.

You ask about my agenda? I'm a director, producer, red evangelist and future EPIC customer. My job is to make great videos, not sell training sessions.

The DP did say that he wouldn't go with EPIC if he had a feature tomorrow. There were at least 20 witnesses of it. You weren't there cause you had left the room to prepare your training sessions papers.

Don't mix oranges & apples. RED is not a joke. You may be the only one doing RED events in France, but that's not an excuse. I'm severe because I'm passionate and because RED really deserves better than that.

 

[Arnaud Paris]

I really don't like your tone here, not to mention that your attitude shows little respect for all the people who spent time helping out doing this free presentation. So if you're not happy about it I suggest you don't come to the next one.

Discussion over for as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Rémi Sello]

Well, if I sound too much aggressive, sorry about that. I really was disappointed.

Done here too.

 

[Pierre Jouvion]

My english is not perfect, so i ll do my best to be understood. I'm the operator who was present at the Epic-M presentation. First of all, i never said what Remi said. Maybe 20 people heard that, but i'm pretty doubtful about it cause i'd have had 20 people at the end who 'd asked me why i said that. I think you were so in a geek anger that you stopped to listen what i say.
Remember that we are in France, all our material is not brand new, and honestly, not everything is working with the Epic M. Just a question of upgrade i think... For exemple the HD-SDImonitor: i think ours was only 4:2:2 and it was not working with the HD-SDI output... And just to remember things, the camera arrived two days before...so it was a first showing for the most impatient.
So, about what i said, i said that on some kind of production who imply huge responsabilities, i would not take an Epic M for today. But do u remember what were the reasons Remi? For exemple, if i do a big commercial for jewelry with lots of clients, i dont take it, because in France, Post production is not yet ready. Except for Locared...
We only have 2 days of experience...let us live and breath.
But on the contrary, i will use the epic m in 3 weeks for a huge corporate for swiss watches...i dont have any client behind me, i'm light with the director a gaffer a grip and a 1st AC.
We re also Red lovers...and when you act like this i take it as an insult against Arnaud who has always been the 1st in France who always try to give informations to the others about Red systems. So sorry Remi, just remeber that people have business to make and don't be bitter because he didn't give you all the informations necessary so that you can do all by yourself without passing through Arnaud'society which is the only one in France which have an Epic M and a scratch which manage Epic files in real time.
Because We have the red One experience, At every presentation, all the rentals society or post production companies of Paris were there...they listened a lot to what we have to say and... pouf... two month after they had everything they need to manage by themselves.

Just to sum up, lots of Dop and 1st ac were there. Yes, the room was too sunny and it's pretty hard and expensive to rent a 500 seats dark room for less than 70 people a saturday morning... ahah
They laugh but they don't seem disappointed by what they saw...and appreciate what i had to say...

And about the experience, guys, Arnaud and Ted are very close, we do teaching programs since 3 years with lots of success ( Seven days of workshop). I dont want to be conceited but i think we know about what we talk . Besides of being DP i'm also teacher for cinema schools in France and i teach for the national center of technicians about digital cinematography and ligthing.
To end, i just want to say that i don't like these c.ck fight
thank you for reading that long reply

 

[Brice Ansel]

Hum, just find out that thread.
Well... welcome on board Mr Jouvion.