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Why do the DSLR fanboys hate RED so much?

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Justin Harrison

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I'm officially over standing-up for RED on the DSLR forums and when talking to people. Why?

Because they never see the point and just keep bitching!?

I shoot 7D/5D/RED One and have even been lucky to roll EPIC-M on a few projects.

Even Arri fan's acknowledge RED is an awesome camera, yet for some reason the DSLR shooters just don't get it.

I tell them how good REDCODE is and the resolution and sensor and they come back with 5D has a big sensor and look at the DOF.

Ugh...

Sorry, done ranting. I thought it was supposed to be about whatever gets the project done best.
 
It's the same thing all over.

They want to convince the world that we're idiots for buying a $20k camera over a $2k camera that they think does the same thing. :gun:

I'm sure on an ARRI forum somewhere they wonder why we think our $20k camera does the same job as their $80k camera, and why we think they're idiots for paying it! :out:

Then there was the F35! Let's pay $250k for a camera and then mortgage the house to buy a deck if you want to capture your footage! :cursing:

Hey wait, I'm starting to sound like a DSLR guy. :w00t:

Everyone wants to know that their decision was the right one.
 
I don't really like to get into this because I've been here long enough to see how taboo this subject is here but I have a theory on the success of the DSLR, it's a true owners camera for the indie filmmaker. In theory it appeals to people like me (Even though I don't own one).
To justify the price of a red, or an Epic (which is the one I would ideally want) I would have to work fairly regularly just to pay off the huge loan I got to buy the thing even for an EX1 or an F3 I would have to consider these options and because I don't shoot as much short indie films as I would like the camera would likely just sit around doing nothing most of the time.
A DSLR on the other hand being primarily a stills camera I would probably get more use out of it as I would be shooting stills regularly and I could pull it out for the odd "No budget" short, however when it comes time to having any kind of rental budget I'm going to leave the thing in stills mode and shoot with the Real movie camera, Red for instance or F3.
 
That's the whole point. If you have the work to justify it, get the right tool for the job.

The frustration comes from the incorrect belief that they are doing the same job, which they aren't. I was at NAB and saw 5D projected and Epic Projected. The difference is night and day.

Having said that, I had a friend with me from the aviation industry. To him I'm sure they were indistinguishable. Not sure what that tells me but in the end I'M the one who needs to be happy, and Red makes me happy!
 
Instead of trying to tell people how the Red is better than their camera, why not go out and shoot something that PROVES it?

Lead by example. Show them what Red cameras can do instead of telling them.
 
I'm a huge DSLR fanboy... but I also love RED. Already got the money set aside for my Scarlet Fixed... possibly Epic-S, but I'd rather have two cameras than one. The 5D's FF sensor for under $3000 is pretty unique, it has it's own special look and nothing really competes with it on an "artistic" standpoint. So the Canon guy's have a point there...

For me though, it's Canon DSLR for anything low-mid budget and Red for everything else. Panasonic cameras just look like crap for the most part and are the definition of "the video look"... I guess some people dig it, but I don't. The AF-100 looks like it has that "true-motion" TV interpolation on it all the time and the exposure latitude and sensitivity look no better than a HVX. Then you have Sony, which is just not releasing competitive enough products for me to jump ship. I mean the FS100 looks great... but in 2011, the frame-rates and resolution are too low, and the price is too high. Same goes for the F3.

The way I see it is... Canon is cutting edge for delivering a great image at a good enough resolution for a small price... Revolution for the indie crown. Red is cutting edge for simply giving us the most camera possible with today's technology for what it costs and NOT WHAT IT COSTS IN COMPARISON to other cameras in the same "market"... There is a HUGE difference. Panasonic and Sony need to cut their BS and deliver if they don't want to get eaten up by Red and Canon's next generation of DSLRs. There is simply no excuse for these large-sensor $5,000-$13,000 "proper" video cameras shooting the same color-space and (basically) frame-rate as the little sub-$1000 T2i and GH2... no excuse at all... except for them trying to protect their more professional and broadcast division cameras. And don't start with the "well if you want better color-space, get an external recorder" crap... ANY company could be building $5000 cameras that record internally to some intermediate codec right now... they just don't want to.

...I'll just stay with my DSLRs for now and then get myself a Red when the Scarlet and Epic-S become available. I'd love a used Red MX... but I think it's just too big. Small and modular with fly-by-wire controls are the future... I love the direction Scarlet and Epic are going! :thumbsup:

Also, I don't really think the Canon DSLRs are a threat to Red... If anything they are the "gateway drug" and Red should actually be embracing them for that!
 
HatersGonnaHate.jpg
 
I don’t think the DSLR fanboys hate Red. I thing who hate Red is a small group of misinformed people with very basic knowledge and lack of experience. I have been in this business for 20+ years and always the “filmmakers” with little or not studies and/or experience are the ones who make more “noise”. Unfortunately the last 3-4 years new cheap technologies are more and more easy to access for those people.
DSLR in the right hands are wonderful tools, so Red, Arri, Sony. No matter what; DSLRs and other similar video technologies have no similarity to the Digital Cinematography Technologies….just like apples to oranges.
 
It didn't help that RED filtered terms like the Canon 7D to read as Betacam on this forum...
 
Chuck Z said:
It didn't help that RED filtered terms like the Canon 7D to read as Betacam on this forum...
Click to expand...

Did they really? Amusing but might be considered less than professional. I'm a member of a forum where some of my cars are in my .sig; it gets filtered and ends up looking like:

1987 CX GTI Auto
1986 CX GTI Turbo
2008 Mercedes Benz R-Class
2004 chavvy over-rated rubbish WRX STi (tuned!)
2002 chavvy over-rated rubbish WRX Estate
2002 Renault Avantime V6 Auto Pack Exception 2
2001 Fix-it-again-tomorrow Multipla
1990 Land rOver 101 Judge Dredd (!)

Mike
 
I think the entire discussion is a waste of time. It's like arguing over hammers. I'd rather see what the individual holding ANY hammer can build. Way to many arm chair "Professionals" shouting down their "truth" from the mountain top. Can you imagine if Nike's slogan was : "Just talk about it to death!"..

my 2c
 
Jake Bastian said:
What's the argument? The 7D/5D are FAR superior tools for the wedding videographer. Just accept it and move on.
Click to expand...

Actually I don't really think they perform very well in these situations. An HVX or similar would probably be better suited towards wedding and such. Unless you're just using the DSLRs for "glamor" shots and whatnot.

DSLRs excel for indie films, short festivals, and building up your reel to prove you can handle the 35mm format... They're not high-budget cinema machines, but they are the best indie filmmaking tool that has EVER been available in the history of cinema thus far. Why can't people accept this? ...because you can't buy "talent" anymore... and the competition pool just got that much bigger. Step up your games I guess. Get more creative with your ideas or learn how to do really amazing VFX and composting... the cinema-look itself is not longer a "wow" factor.

The biggest problem I have with DSLRs is now all those mumble-core hipsters can have great high-budget looking footage... uggg.
 
I think there were demeaning attitudes from both sides. It's hard to be told your equipment is only 'good enough' when you have put so much work into getting it. It's even harder when the people telling you are comparing your equipment to something that hasn't been released or isn't available yet.

Tom Lowe says it best.
 
I've been using the 5D for a couple of years now and have loved it. It's paid for itself over and over and it's given me a 'film look' that my (ahem) Betacam never did. It has also forced me to learn more about lenses, iso, f-stop etc. that I didn't really need to know as an ENG camera op. I don't regard myself as anything near an expert but it's given me a huge amount of knowledge in a short time. I can't thank Canon enough for that.
So for me, it's allowed for an easy transition from Broadcast video cameras to 'film camera'.

BUT.........

I'll be Ebaying my 5D with heavy heart so I can buy a few more bits and pieces for my (just bought) RED and then EPIC. DSLR's have their limitations, I've discovered them and now I'm ready to upgrade. I think some DSLR users maybe forgive those limitations because they don't need anything more and $20k to them seems an awful lot of money when making corporate videos.
 
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