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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Alexa Vs. Epic Vs. Scarlet Continued...

AnthonyFlores said:
I for one really hope Arri keeps working on innovation, I think Red is forcing them to step up their game and healthy competition is good. They still have a ways to go in terms of producing a true 4k camera -- and I wholeheartedly agree with Jim that 2k will look/feel like SD to us in the not so distant future. But I'm sure they see the writing on the wall, and I wouldn't doubt that they have a 4k or 5k sensor in the works as we speak.

However, some of your comments are a bit strange -- like this:



Hmmmm ... yes Panavision has a great name, but not sure if Redusers "dream" of that. Also, you cannot imagine top cinematographers shooting in a handheld Epic? Well, it's happening now ... check with Brook and Peter regarding what's happening on Spiderman, and all the other features being shot on Epic now by top cinematographers. Not all "handheld" -- of course. But considering how easily 5k Epic's can be shoulder-mounted on a 3D rig, it's obvious to see why all these huge budget 3D features are using them.

And if portability weren't important, why would Arri have developed the Alexa M? (which must be tethered to the main body by a cable.)

Again, I doubt it ever would have happened had the Epic not paved the way and made them want to fight for more 3D market share.

I guarantee that future editions of Arri's, Sony and other pro cinema cameras will be more portable and more modular. It's the future, pure and simple.

Anthony
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Totally agree with the modular system taking over. What I'd like to see though from the Red side to borrow from the Alexa are dedicated external buttons for common settings like ASA and White Balance. Another feature which I'm not sure why it's not used on 35mm high end digital cameras are built in ND's like what you find on ENG cameras. This would save time and a filter tray.
 
I like to think of Epic as the "Noisy Cricket" of high-end digital cinema cameras.

:-)

Stephen
 
Ned Wilson said:
Totally agree with the modular system taking over. What I'd like to see though from the Red side to borrow from the Alexa are dedicated external buttons for common settings like ASA and White Balance. Another feature which I'm not sure why it's not used on 35mm high end digital cameras are built in ND's like what you find on ENG cameras. This would save time and a filter tray.
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There are dedicated buttons for this on R1. And with touch screen, very easy on Epic. The Alexa does have a nice button layout, and a very simple interface. But RED's is getting pretty simple to use as well.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
There are dedicated buttons for this on R1. And with touch screen, very easy on Epic. The Alexa does have a nice button layout, and a very simple interface. But RED's is getting pretty simple to use as well.
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Excellent. Sounds better everyday. Have you used HDR yet?
 
Didn't get a chance to read the initial post, but I got the jist of what's going on. Personally, if the word "RED" on the side doesn't scream "PRO" then I dunno what does. Not everyone can afford a RED, if you can, you must be doing something right...or you're just some snotty rich kid that thinks you're awesome. Anyway, you come to a job with a "RED", hell even a Scarlet, I'm sure everyone would be impressed.

On a side note, maybe someone (RED or 3rd party) could make EPIC, Scarlet "dummy" modules to bulk up the camera a bit for those that are concerned about the size of their pen... er... camera. :laugh:
 
Ok this prestige dick measuring is a load of crap. If you are in the business you know exactly what the camera is that people are using. I think people worry too much what other people are thinking. People hire you to do a job and you SHOULD chose the right tool for the job. If you just chose the big camera you are not considering your options. But its true that first impressions do matter. But trust and respect is earned by educating people on who you are. I know a rather prominent person who judges people by their shoes. When I questioned him about it, the psychology was quite interesting. Believe me it wasn't just whether they were cheap or expensive, it was colour, condition, clothes and shoe combination, the lacing style. Some people judge people by the car they drive etc...Personally I like a good firm handshake and a look straight in the face. If I get that I'm all good.

More often than not people choose a piece of equipment they know, like and trust. Getting your head too buried in tech can get in the way of what important some times. If they know a certain camera will do exactly what they need to get the job done its an obvious road to wander down. Just remember that its a part of your job to keep your eye open for new ways of travelling and keep your eye out for other people who are finding short cuts or even building express roads.
 
Russell has called for this thread to come to an end, and maybe not a bad idea as all of our experiences may vary, our interactions with clients vary, and ultimately the cast of characters whom we work with vary. One man's perfect camera is another man's doorstop. That will always exist.
 
Tim Hole said:
People hire you to do a job and you SHOULD chose the right tool for the job. If you just chose the big camera you are not considering your options. But its true that first impressions do matter. But trust and respect is earned by educating people on who you are. ...More often than not people choose a piece of equipment they know, like and trust. Getting your head too buried in tech can get in the way of what important some times. If they know a certain camera will do exactly what they need to get the job done its an obvious road to wander down. Just remember that its a part of your job to keep your eye open for new ways of travelling and keep your eye out for other people who are finding short cuts or even building express roads.
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Very wise words.

There's a good article in Daily Variety at this link that shows the frustration some DPs are experiencing, when they get hired for a job and then the producer tells them what camera they have to use. I agree with the DPs: it's not fair to have a non-technical person dictate what tools you use for the job.
 
Marc Wielage said:
There's a good article in Daily Variety at this link that shows the frustration some DPs are experiencing, when they get hired for a job and then the producer tells them what camera they have to use. I agree with the DPs: it's not fair to have a non-technical person dictate what tools you use for the job.
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I guess that's just as frustrating as having a non financial person dictate you what tool you should pay for ;)
 
Lewis-M Soucy said:
I guess that's just as frustrating as having a non financial person dictate you what tool you should pay for ;)
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Ha ha! Agreed. Although I'd say Red is as $$$ cheap as possible. Highest post flexibility = least likely re-shoot.

But that said, some people here seem to deal with clients directly, some never. Making clients feel at ease is a big part of the game. This is not to dis clients - they don't know what you're doing tech-wise or why. How comfortable would you feel with a doctor using surgical tools that looked cheap or low-tech, even if they were neither? That's why many medical tools are designed to look a certain way, and everybody accepts the utility of appearance.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
... How comfortable would you feel with a doctor using surgical tools that looked cheap or low-tech, even if they were neither? That's why many medical tools are designed to look a certain way, and everybody accepts the utility of appearance.
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Hmmm. personally I am not at all sure I want to be awake and looking at those surgical tools while they are cutting me up! :001_smile: (But I get what you're saying.)
 
Marc Wielage said:
Very wise words.

There's a good article in Daily Variety at this link that shows the frustration some DPs are experiencing, when they get hired for a job and then the producer tells them what camera they have to use. I agree with the DPs: it's not fair to have a non-technical person dictate what tools you use for the job.
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I'm forced to shoot 5D/7D all the time cause of this...
 
Marc Wielage said:
Very wise words.

There's a good article in Daily Variety at this link that shows the frustration some DPs are experiencing, when they get hired for a job and then the producer tells them what camera they have to use. I agree with the DPs: it's not fair to have a non-technical person dictate what tools you use for the job.
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Ever heard the expression, "Why would you buy a dog and then bark for it?"
 
Rob Ruffo said:
How comfortable would you feel with a doctor using surgical tools that looked cheap or low-tech, even if they were neither? That's why many medical tools are designed to look a certain way, and everybody accepts the utility of appearance.
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Well for one, I would look at the doctor's track record and what kind of hospital he's working at, and if it's all good... I would just take his word for it. I would know, that as a patient and NOT the doctor, I am in absolutely no position to pass judgment on the tools being used. Why do so many people care about the presentation of something so much? It's really a caveman-like way of thinking, especially in today's world of ever-shrinking technology.

Whenever I'm shooting something on a smaller camera system, like a DSLR, and a client or someone asks... "you're really going to shoot the whole thing on that?". I just respond with something like "think about your laptop... then think about your computer 10 years ago... now STFup!"

Epic and Scarlet are catering towards a younger generation of digital cinematographers who are used to working with technology like touchscreens and fly-by-wire controls and capable of understanding the work-flow from start to finish. They are not for old fogey industry veterans who are used to working on camera systems where everything has it's own dial and you're only responsible for ONE aspect of shooting. There is absolutely no reason at all that cameras should not keeping getting smaller and more inclusive. People that are trying to look "impressive" on set with big cameras and lenses should really not be shooting anything... your work that got you the job in the first place should be speaking for you, not your gear-size.
 
Alexander Bscheidl said:
I agree with Russel. A fully equipped studio camera like Arriflex or Panaflex is a prestigious symbol for high-class feature film production and a reliable camera system is the key element for a trouble free shooting. I guess many Redusers are dreaming to be photographed behind a Panaflex one day. How ever I cannot imagine too many top cinematographers framing their shots thru a handheld EPIC. The true professionals are no shooters and do not need the all-in-one camera. It is too much of a compromise. We are working in a conservative business. In terms of size and weight the Alexa is in between an Arri 416 and Arri 235 and is a silent camera. These cameras are built to about four main shooting configurations: studio, handheld, steadicam and 3D. Thousands of movies have been shot in this way. No need for 100 or more different EPIC configurations. Ask professional camera crews, it is a waste of shooting time.
Until today Arri has constantly improved their camera design and the Alexa is quality wise outstanding. With much more interesting innovations to follow soon. http://www.fdtimes.com/news/arri/arri-alexa-optical-viewfinder/

Alexander Bscheidl

Camera Technician
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Your post is absolutely false. There are over a thousand configurations of 35mm film cameras. The most exciting comments from NAB for Alexa users was the Alexa M's modularity (who is copying who). You have no clue what a professional is. As for this forum, it is a RedUser forum for people who actually have questions or workflow issues with their RED. Epics are definitely not late over 5000 of them have pre-sold with a path for upgradeability. Neither you or the so called professionals you speak about have ever used an Epic. So until you do ........... Ask FXGUIDE they are now the training go to info collective the highest of high end, they said the "Epic is the best camera alive"
 
Alexa is nothing but Arri's direct reply to the Red One. It's a faux good idea with a thick coat of solid reputation. The best feature Alexa has is James Cameron. It's a Red One without the funk. It's a bunch of old farts trying to dance to the latest tracks. Embarrassing.
 
Lewis-M Soucy said:
Alexa is nothing but Arri's direct reply to the Red One. It's a faux good idea with a thick coat of solid reputation. The best feature Alexa has is James Cameron. It's a Red One without the funk. It's a bunch of old farts trying to dance to the latest tracks. Embarrassing.
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I think that is very unfair. Arri were making high-end digital movie cameras before RED One was even announced.

What is really embarrassing is this constant pissing competition between RED and Arri.
 
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