When using military elements to tell your story...

[Tim Hole]

I am willing to be slightly forgiveable for small things but if its a compelling story it matters less. I can see how it frustrating it would be though for those who are trained. It doesn't take that much for wardrobe to dress someone properly. Man they will research period pieces the n-th degree so why not a specialist field too. One of the main part of a writers job is to research-no excuse.

Sorry to sidetrack slightly but it reminded me. Whilst on the subject of War and Military films I hope everyone has seen 'Come and See'. Its dark and harrowing and is one of the best films ever made Ebert coined it rather well "one of the most devastating films ever about anything, and in it, the survivors must envy the dead..." With something like this I would guess that certain aspects of accuracy can be overlooked because partially the training was minimal and at times far from controlled. As long as the actions are accurate and the story tells a truth.

 

[Robert Frank]

One of my peeves is when actors play musicians but aren't able to play the instrument they use in the scene, especially when the hand movement doesn't even rhythmically match the music at all, never mind the notes themselves.

 

[D Fuller]

Sometimes accuracy is boring.

No, accuracy is not boring, it is work. That means it takes time, and that means it costs something. We live in a time when it seems that everyone is willing to sacrifice accuracy (truth, in other words) for expediency. Cheap is good, or at least that is the conventional wisdom. But art is not cheap. Art is truth. Untrue film is either propaganda or nonsense.

 

[Julio Quintana]

Whilst on the subject of War and Military films I hope everyone has seen 'Come and See'. Its dark and harrowing and is one of the best films ever made Ebert coined it rather well "one of the most devastating films ever about anything, and in it, the survivors must envy the dead..."

My God. I just watched the whole 10-minute clip. Pretty powerful. I just added it to my Netflix queue.

 

[Sean Lee]

You could say the same thing about any movie or show about any specialized field (medicine, law enforcement, psychiatry, etc.). I remember my girlfriend's dad hating "Armageddon" because he was a geologist for an oil company.

I agree with the OP, and also agree with what you say here that there is misrepresentation in many many cases in film. The ones I see the most are cultural misrepresentations, in particularly prevalent in western films representing non-western cultures/countries. I occasionally see it going the other way as well.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

One of my peeves is when actors play musicians but aren't able to play the instrument they use in the scene, especially when the hand movement doesn't even rhythmically match the music at all, never mind the notes themselves.

Ah, yeah, I didn't think of that but it really annoys me too! I play guitar and trumpet a lot, and I don't know if it's just because of that but it seems that those instruments are more often done terribly. With piano at least they seem to hide the keys better when the actor obviously can't play it. I suppose that's easier because it's further away from their body and the piano naturally has a lot of surfaces to hide them!

 

[Jake Bastian]

So... Are we gonna get those 3 bad examples? Or are you guys just venting?

 

[Liam Hall]

So... Are we gonna get those 3 bad examples? Or are you guys just venting?

I'll play...

I've excluded anything staring Steven Seagal from the worst films categoryand selected three from recent American mainstream cinema for the best.

Worst Military FIlms:
Pearl Harbour
Officer and A Gentleman
Top Gun


Best Military FIlms:

The Deerhunter
Full Metal Jacket
Saving Private Ryan

 

[Shawn Booth]

Good:
Hamburger Hill
Platoon
Black Hawk Down
Jarhead

 

[Shawn Booth]

I've seen more of a trend in inaccurate military jargon and uniforms in more lower budget stuff than anything else. (I was in the marine corps for 6 years) so yeah I can see it IS a personal pet peeve of mine to see how slapped together it can be sometimes. Actors spend so much time and energy researching their role if they have to carry the torch from a previous actor that did the role, of if it's based off a historical character, or if it's from a book, and production, and the actor not taking the time to get how military personal would actually act and the thing they'd saying in that situation is beyond me. Best ones I've seen to date so far that I was able to relate to the most was "Generation Kill" HBO's mini series.

When they do it right, it's even more engrossing for a veteran, or current active member. You feel like you are there again. It's an important aspect of telling the story if military is your #1 story telling component.

Thank you.

Generation Kill did it right... I am still trying to get through all the episodes...

 

[Shawn Booth]

Be nice, Shawn. Last I heard, we have a volunteer military service that pays people to do what they do. atriot:

Am being nice... What I said though is fact, no? If you didn't serve, you couldn't or didn't want to (not willing). No fault finding. But I find it interesting the world loves a story about soldiers told by someone who knows nothing about it.

A soldier's pay? Trust me, no soldier has ever been "paid" properly to do what they do... It's not even possible.

 

[Liam Hall]

But I find it interesting the world loves a story about soldiers told by someone who knows nothing about it.

Using your logic; Stephen Spielberg would never had made Saving Private Ryan, Martin Scorsese would never had made Raging Bull and since he's not, nor has he ever been a zombie, George A Romero would never had made Night of the Living Dead. The outsiders perspective is often the most perceptive.

 

[christopher witzke]

Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
Mark Twain

 

[Tom.Wong]

reverse side, these are also individuals that do a lot of research.

Spielberg, just as an example, will research, interview many veterans, and get the full story beforehand. So in essence, he does know a lot about it. He may not have experienced it personally, but it's researching for the film to make it as accurate as possible, while still giving it that Hollywood magic, of drama, romance, action, whatever.

It's along the same lines of making a period piece, but not reading up anything about the era, and generalizing that off the top of your head what would be there and being inaccurate. People who know nothing about that period may not think anything of it, people who do, are broken out of the film displeased with the blatant lack of attention to detail. And that's the primary complaint I think Shawn is trying to explain, it's just a lack of attention to detail.

All this money, all this time spent on so many aspects, the question leads, why the lack of attention in this department? It's been getting better, and it doesn't apply across the board. Saving Private Ryan was so intense, that a lot of WWII veterans couldn't watch it because it was TOO real, but it shows how accurate Spielburg got it, and how much more the film is now because of that.

A good example of what I thought was lack of attention to detail in a GREAT film, was "A Few Good Men" I think they did a great job with the film, it's academy recognized, I enjoyed it through and through. But I never understood why, character's like Kevin Bacon's, had a haircut that would never pass 15 seconds in the Marine Corps, especially as an officer. And that always took me out of the film a bit because I was annoyed by it.

Productions hire military advisors, and historical consultants etc. Even scientists for sci fi films to see if it was in the realm of possibility for their psuedo science. accuracy is very important in filmmaking, even if it's made up like "Zombies"

 

[Liam Hall]

Yes, you're right Tom. I took Shawn to mean that you only know about the military if you have been in it - which was stretching his point really.

 

[Shawn Booth]

My OP : "Please do your research..."

My other comment, about stories told by someone w/o experience, was referring to big names NOT researching well enough OR telling the story well enough. Example would be HURT LOCKER. She had details and advisors... and still it's such a let down in terms of what soldiers go through/deal with... I don't know any vets/troopers who liked it. We wanted to but... (Yes, I am aware plenty of people enjoyed it. It is just one example.)

 

[Julio Quintana]

A soldier's pay? Trust me, no soldier has ever been "paid" properly to do what they do... It's not even possible.

You're probably right.

 

[Joe D'Arcy]

My OP : "Please do your research..."

My other comment, about stories told by someone w/o experience, was referring to big names NOT researching well enough OR telling the story well enough. Example would be HURT LOCKER. She had details and advisors... and still it's such a let down in terms of what soldiers go through/deal with... I don't know any vets/troopers who liked it. We wanted to but... (Yes, I am aware plenty of people enjoyed it. It is just one example.)

I agree with your suggestion of 'do your research'. As someone else stated, it goes across the board for all subjects.
How many times have you seen a character in a film surrounded by a media pack of 'extras' as they leave the courthouse etc. The cameramen zooms in and out like they are hanging off a motorcycle throttle. This mock media pack is being filmed by a DP under the guidance of a director. The research and experience of the Director and crew cant be any closer to the action and they make a mess of it.

 

[Liam Hall]

My OP : "Please do your research..."

My other comment, about stories told by someone w/o experience, was referring to big names NOT researching well enough OR telling the story well enough. Example would be HURT LOCKER. She had details and advisors... and still it's such a let down in terms of what soldiers go through/deal with... I don't know any vets/troopers who liked it. We wanted to but... (Yes, I am aware plenty of people enjoyed it. It is just one example.)

Yes, I get that now Shawn. I've made a lot of films for the armed forces and spent a lot of time embedded with both the army and navy, so I understand your frustration.

 

[Tim Hole]

Interesting documentary it begins with (something most of us are aware of) concerning the collaboration and relationship the Pentagon has with Hollywood and then there is an interview with Oliver Stone, Michael Moore and Christopher Hedges.