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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What's your take on Zeiss Compact Primes?

Lewis-M Soucy

Lewis-M Soucy

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They're light, small, pretty fast and quite cheap. I'm really considering going lightweight with my Epic.

I'm considering them a lot lately...

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I am interested as well. The main thing for me is the aesthetic look. They certainly make a lot of sense on the Epic because of their size and weight and the fact that they are full frame. However, the main thing is how they look i.e. the aesthetics of the look they produce. Will they be too sharp on the Epic?
 
Rob Castiglione said:
Will they be too sharp on the Epic?
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These are DSLR glass rehoused.

They certainly won't be too sharp - although I don't know how a lens could be. If a lens is too sharp for what you are doing, then drop a filter on it.

Just remember though you can make a lens softer on set with filtration or in post, but you can't make it sharper. Hopefully this will obviate that question in the future.

They are not as sharp as the Arri/Zeiss Master Primes, that much is certain.
 
If they only were T2.1 across the set...
 
The 18mm sucks. Zeiss is designing a new one, no ETA yet... Probably at least a year or more away.
 
Lewis-M Soucy said:
They're light, small, pretty fast and quite cheap. I'm really considering going lightweight with my Epic.

I'm considering them a lot lately...
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The Zeiss lenses are GREAT glass for the price.

My issues are that they are a bit slow. and they have a non-uniform t stop.

For cinema use I like the Red Pro Primes better over all.

The main issue with the RPP vs the Compact Primes is that the RPP are heavier, and larger. Also the focus marks are off a bit on the RPP. You can have them remarked/adjusted and have new rings installed at Duclos lenses for a reasonable price.

You should also consider the Cook Panchro/i lenses. Those lenses are slower at a uniform t/2.8, but they are remarkable nevertheless.

(I'd be much happier with the Cooke S5/i as my working set, because I like opening nice and wide ... but like the Master Primes and the Leica Summilux-C that is a whole other league.)

You should also have a look at some somewhat older Zeiss superspeeds. You can get a decent t/1.3 set of Mk 3 lenses for not too much more than the cost of the full set of the CP.2

You should also try and check out some of the Illumina lenses. T/1.3 set of 5 lenses just under $30000. A bit more than the CP set, but t/1.3. I'd expect to have to shoot those around t/2 for most work, but having the option to open up makes me happy.

Now part of my still developing style is that I shoot a bit more open than a typical cinematographer. I like to work around 2.8 for most indoors work, but I definitely do open to t/2 a bit, and I like to work around in the typical indoor split (t4-5.6) outdoors.

For night shots, I like to take a stop off those numbers. Hence my interest in very fast lenses.

Most cinematographers shoot everything a stop or two slower than I like to work... so many are very happy with the Panchros at t/2.8 or quality zooms which often let you shoot t/2.8 as well.

Getting back to the Zeiss CP.2 set, I'd almost definitely skip the Zeiss 18mm at t/3.5. This is extra "bad" as the wide shots where you are likely to use it are the ones you'll have the most difficulty putting light into. So, even if you are happy working at 2.8, I'd grab the RPP 18mm instead.
 
things to like about them... they are SUPER light, like a feather light. great for handheld and etc. where u need to keep the weight down.

the lenses aren't bad, they are plenty sharp, decent contrast. they are a decent set for personal owners, but don't expect them to ever rent. i haven't met anybody ever really interested in renting them, they are just kind of kitted with the owner. they don't do you bad though.

but they are unmatched not just in speed, but color is way off too between the lenses, especially with the faster lenses wide open. that's why they made the cp2's actually (one of the reasons) they slowed down the set so they could match better.

they are also full frame, so when monstro FF comes around if nothing else is out yet, these are the go to PL lenses. but honestly as I've said, they are just get the job done lenses. they won't give you a bad image, they'll look good, but there isn't anything horribly special about them either.

a better bang for the buck in the same price range might be the RPP's. more options, matched in speed. but if you need light and compact, these are a good choice.
 
Lee Saxon said:
I don't love the 18 (I don't love any of them except the 21 and maybe the macro 50), but if we're gonna single one out for suckitude it should be the 28.
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Fair enough... I haven't used the 28. lol.

IMO, if you want this glass, buy the ZF set from Duclos. It's just under $9K and has de-clicked irises and gears attached, all tuned and in a nice case. Nikon F mount. If you're going for Epic or other system with a Canon mount, he could probably do you the ZE's instead and then the focus rotation would go the "cinema" way.

As others have pointed out, these lenses are built well with good mechanics. They cover FF35. They use the same primary optical elements used in the ZF and ZE SLR primes, but they have a different iris and different mechanical internals. To say they are simply re-housed is unfair, because they are not.

The biggest complaint is the mis-matched wide apertures across the set. The 50 and 85 apertures have been crippled from the first release. They advertise the set as being T2.1, but it's not. Some lenses are faster, some are slower. Not all of them have even field illumination or sharpness.

If you don't need to cover FF35 and you want nice, compact cinema lenses for about the same money, take a look at the Cooke i/Panchros. They are just plain awesome. T2.8 across the set. Tack sharp, that creamy Cooke bokeh, /i data support, good size and weight. They're just nice lenses.
 
Lewis
How about something like 4 RPP's & 3 CP2's and intercut them. 18, 21, 25, 28, 35, 50, 85 .
The RPP's being 18, 25, 50, 85. They all cover 5K

Total price: US $ 26,850

You could use the CP2's for steadycam , light, run 'n' gun while the RPP's keep a projects image quality high.

just a thought ....

Brent
 
We had a set of the original Compact Primes at SALT back in 2009 (Has it really been that long?) anyway the glass in the CP.2s is the same, here are our thoughts back then...

Me:
"The Zeiss Compacts preformed well but not extraordinary compared to the other new glass around. Although they did show nice contrast and bokeh they all had a tendency to flare in a strange star patten. They are very light though and cover the full 24x36mm still frame. It would also be nice if the wides were faster."

David Mullen:
The slight star filter effect from the Cooke S4’s iris blades was distinctive. Oddly enough, the Zeiss Compacts, which have a lot of iris blades, also had somewhat of a star filter effect, just a star with a lot more points.

Matt Duclos:
The Zeiss Compact Primes performed just as I expected. Again, considering the price, you get what you pay for. If you're looking for a set of lenses for steady cam or handheld work, consider these lenses an excellent option. Compared to the new crop of primes, these little guys are a breeze to work with. Their resolution was slightly lower than I had hoped for, but they made up for it in their contrast. Their mechanics are classic Zeiss; smooth, solid, and repeatable. Very nice fit and finish. All the lenses use the exact same outside dimensions, which is nice when you want to change focal lengths but keep the same setup. Their iris blades were almost a perfect circle at every stop. The set's variance in speed is a huge caveat. Especially the wide end at T3.5.

Matt Uhry:
Zeiss Compacts T1.5 - T3.4 Very Nice Mechanics and Markings. Disappointing performance wide open on the fast ones. Uneven color matching and flare characteristics throughout the set. They look decent at 2.8 but so does most everything else... Cover Full frame.

Brook Willard:

These lenses are a strange bunch. I don't really know what to make of them. On one hand, they're very pretty lenses that perform fairly well. On the other hand, they don't match at all. It's bizarre.

Optically, they're sharp and fairly appealing. The faster lenses are a bit of a bummer when wide open, which really makes them slower in practice. That said, because the slowest lens is T3.4... you'll need to gear your lighting package accordingly. They also aren't well color matched. That said, the iris is the sort of thing that dreams are made of.

Mechanically, they're great. It's like somebody sat on an Ultra Prime and put some blue paint on it. Some of the closer focus markings are a little random, but I'll always take too many over too few.

These lenses are like a runner in a bodybuilding competition. They're great at what they do, but we're not measuring to their strengths. I suspect that if we put them up against a bunch of VistaVision lenses, we'd absolutely love them. Their 8-perf coverage will make them very popular when the larger Epics ship. But against the other S35mm primes, their bizarre inconsistencies and steep price hurt.

So if you have 8-perf plans in the future, these lenses probably rock. If you don't... well, their strengths will be lost on you.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
IMO, if you want this glass, buy the ZF set from Duclos. It's just under $9K
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Now that sounds about like the fair price for these things.

Dan Kanes said:
What is wrong with the 28? In the set I've used the 28 was my favorite...
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Was this on FF35? Because in the center it's very nice, it just has AWFUL corners (which you wouldn't see on S35).

Which, come to think of it, probably explains in general why people on this cine-focused forum have had much better experiences with the CP set than I did shooting stills with the ZF set. Doh, didn't think of that.
 
Wow, bit of this, bit of that... I reckon they're very good but not great then... The Duclos set is a nice option too, I wonder how it will perform on Epic although I think they cover 5K. I have a Nikon mount for my Red (the Optitek one with aperture ring, not Doug's one), but I might get stuck a while with Epic before they make a Nikon mount. I am considering the RPP of course, they're awesome but they are huge! I wish I could afford Leicas :(
 
Lee Saxon said:
Now that sounds about like the fair price for these things.



Was this on FF35? Because in the center it's very nice, it just has AWFUL corners (which you wouldn't see on S35).

Which, come to think of it, probably explains in general why people on this cine-focused forum have had much better experiences with the CP set than I did shooting stills with the ZF set. Doh, didn't think of that.
Click to expand...

It was a CP at 4k 2:1
 
I was really close to buying a set of these CP's (so close, I had them in the checkout bin at creativevideo online store). Really pleased I read this thread first - thank you.
 
Lee Saxon said:
I don't love the 18 (I don't love any of them except the 21 and maybe the macro 50), but if we're gonna single one out for suckitude it should be the 28.
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I've been using the 21 on a job for the last 2 weeks (I have a very strange mix and match set of lenses on this job) and like the lens very much. Been using it for a lot of handheld and the weight is great. I haven't used the others in the set.
 
Been doing some testing with these lenses. They aren't bad. I have CP1's, and despite the gross mismatch of Tstops, I kinda like having an emergency 50mm T1.5 when I need it. Yes I like my cookes A LOT MORE. But I wouldn't kick these on the curb either. They are inexpensive, but fully featured ergonomic PL glass. You get what you pay for.
 
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