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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Big NAB rumor "Scratch coming to MAC"

shashbugu

shashbugu

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There are no details yet, but apparently it will be announced at NAB, Scratch on Mac. Its just a rumor for now.
 
That would really be an interesting change of minds...

Don't think it is too likely, though or that it makes too much sense now. If they aren't going Linux all of a sudden at the same time.

Back in 2008, OTOH...
 
Apple STILl does not support Nvidia cards in a way that Scratch will work and they never will

STILL THE STUPIDEST LAMEST rumor ever... unless Apple went about face
 
Robert Frank said:
I'm a little new to high cost post processing packages. Could you elaborate on this?
Click to expand...

We're discussing an unsubstantiated rumor. But if it is true, that would be the second product, that left me puzzled. Baselight pluin being the first. What would be Assimilate's motivation to release Scratch on a Mac? Being able to write Prores? Frankly, even this would be a flimsy reason, as we all know, that there are no technical reasons, why you couldn't write Prores on Win7. It's more of a political issue with Apple. What else? I can't come up with one...
Assimilate is in different situation than Blackmagic. They do not manufacture hardware and color grading systems is their bread and butter, unlike sideline business- Resolve for BM. They couldn't afford to drop the price of Scratch to $1k and survive. I just don't see it...
 
Scratch resellers were pretty stubborn on selling turnkey systems, not just the software way back when I was last checking. That may have changed, though...

The nVidea drivers are more of an issue, unless Cuda is the new name of the game and solves the Scratch workflow with an AJA or BMD card, like it does for resolve/smoke.

I would have loved to see this back in 2008. They could sooo have owned the markeds, if they'd done that back then. A 5000$/7500$ Scratch on mac.

But anyone suggesting that was just basically not given much credit.

Enter Resolve and Smoke...

I can't see why they'd do that now, though - Unless it is as an extention to the upcoming CS5 release...
 
I thought about it a bit more and I suddenly came to a conclusion, that some may be a bit controversial. So, here it goes.
I think, that by pricing Resolve so low, BM did a serious disservice to Mac platform. Resolve is just good enough, that many indy post professionals can use on many projects and feel satisfied with it's capabilities and results. As a result, BM pretty much created a huge disincentive for other high end color grading manufacturers to release lower Mac versions of their products. Even Resolve on a Linux is pretty pricey. If I was high end manufacturer, that's where I would be and not on a Mac...
 
It could become an interesting marketing strategy for the whole sector - Mac as the lower end systems with less capable hardware, and Linux for the high end.
However, I really see it more as the lower end being Mac software that will run on any system without specific hardware requirements (like what you have with Color, but not with Resolve) and the high end being turnkey hardware/software Linux systems. I think the first question most people asked about Resolve on the Mac was not "what kind of a system do I need to buy?" but rather "will it run on the system I already own?"
 
jake blackstone said:
Assimilate is in different situation than Blackmagic. They do not manufacture hardware and color grading systems is their bread and butter, unlike sideline business- Resolve for BM. They couldn't afford to drop the price of Scratch to $1k and survive. I just don't see it...
Click to expand...

A) Scratch is not a grading system. It is a media processing and handling system that also happens to do some color grading. Only on RedUser is Scratch considered primarily a grading system.

B) Nobody here, at least as far as I can tell, insinuated that Assimilate would be selling a Scratch system on a Mac or any other platform for $1000 or anything close to it. Blackmagic is Blackmagic. Their pricing policies are not necessarily going to be copied by all other vendors, nor should they be. Filmlight's strategy of operating a plugin inside of a host program rather than a standalone system is a clearly different strategy than Blackmagic, and to me an interesting one given that the "indie" users are not likely to ever buy a full Baselight system at any price, but might want some of the processing power that can be folded into the plugin version. Filmlight recognizes that there is now a "do it yourself" market that is extremely price sensitive but not nearly as demanding as the mainstream or high end post industry in terms of flexibility, efficiency, power, features, and interactivity. By keeping the product as a hosted plugin, a lot of the learning curve for a new program is eliminated (or at least minimized), and the "no budget" market can claim a "real" product as their own, at least to a degree. One of the complaints I've heard here and elsewhere about Resolve is that it has some specific hardware requirements and a large learning curve for people who normally only use programs like Final Cut Pro. That's what often happens when you put professional level interfaces in front of people who don't happen to do things like color grading every day to make their living. Filmlight is taking a different and equally as interesting approach, IMHO.
 
Thanks guys. I'm still look up at the learning curve with some of this stuff.
 
Stephen Strangways said:
It could become an interesting marketing strategy for the whole sector - Mac as the lower end systems with less capable hardware, and Linux for the high end.
However, I really see it more as the lower end being Mac software that will run on any system without specific hardware requirements (like what you have with Color, but not with Resolve) and the high end being turnkey hardware/software Linux systems. I think the first question most people asked about Resolve on the Mac was not "what kind of a system do I need to buy?" but rather "will it run on the system I already own?"
Click to expand...
Color is not a real time color grading system, therefore the hardware requirements for it are nor that important, than would be for a real time system, such as Resolve. For Resolve to do it's thing, it needs very tightly integrated hardware. If you want to do 1/4 or 1/2 debayer, multiple layers corrections all in real time, any old Mac Pro just wouldn't do...
 
M Most said:
A) Scratch is not a grading system. It is a media processing and handling system that also happens to do some color grading. Only on RedUser is Scratch considered primarily a grading system.
Click to expand...
I'm sure, people at Offhollywood, Local Hero and obviously, Assimilalte would disagree with this statement:)
M Most said:
B) Nobody here, at least as far as I can tell, insinuated that Assimilate would be selling a Scratch system on a Mac or any other platform for $1000 or anything close to it. Blackmagic is Blackmagic. Their pricing policies are not necessarily going to be copied by all other vendors, nor should they be. Filmlight's strategy of operating a plugin inside of a host program rather than a standalone system is a clearly different strategy than Blackmagic, and to me an interesting one given that the "indie" users are not likely to ever buy a full Baselight system at any price, but might want some of the processing power that can be folded into the plugin version. Filmlight recognizes that there is now a "do it yourself" market that is extremely price sensitive but not nearly as demanding as the mainstream or high end post industry in terms of flexibility, efficiency, power, features, and interactivity. By keeping the product as a hosted plugin, a lot of the learning curve for a new program is eliminated (or at least minimized), and the "no budget" market can claim a "real" product as their own, at least to a degree. One of the complaints I've heard here and elsewhere about Resolve is that it has some specific hardware requirements and a large learning curve for people who normally only use programs like Final Cut Pro. That's what often happens when you put professional level interfaces in front of people who don't happen to do things like color grading every day to make their living. Filmlight is taking a different and equally as interesting approach, IMHO.
Click to expand...

As i already had said, we're discussing an unverified rumor. I personally, don't think Scratch on a Mac is a done deal. As far as BL plugin, I will defer my opinion until tomorrow, when I'll see it and get a better feel for what it's limitations...
 
jake blackstone said:
I'm sure, people at Offhollywood would disagree with this statement:)
Click to expand...

Mark and I disagree on a lot of things. We're also good friends. Disagreeing is healthy, or at least it should be, especially when there's a good deal of mutual respect in the disagreement (and I think we actually do agree on that....)..
 
M Most said:
Mark and I disagree on a lot of things. We're also good friends. Disagreeing is healthy, or at least it should be, especially when there's a good deal of mutual respect in the disagreement (and I think we actually do agree on that....)..
Click to expand...

Actually, I too agree with your statement:)
 
SCRATCH could work just fine on Mac or other platforms without using the nVidia SDI output. They could support BMD and AJA hardware for monitoring and other functions. I would assume that SCRATCH will continue to evolve and support more hardware options... nVidia is not really keen on continued support of SDI enabled Quadro cards and most buyers are not keen on paying the premiums for them as opposed to using AJA and BMD card solutions. Especially now with the newer 3D cards and lower prices there, increased PCIe bandwidth to handle GPU to capture card transactions for real-time monitor output. SCRATCH on Mac actually makes some good sense if Assimilate moves the software beyond the nVidia restrictions. As for the credibility of this rumor, I don't think it would surprise me either way if it happened or not.

Resolve is a good product at a good price. I disagree that they have done a disservice by pricing it low. Like all other professional software niches that have seen their pricing collapse over the years, color grading and finishing apps are the next on the chopping block. Apple started it with Color. BMD acquired DaVinci and released the Mac version of Resolve for under $1K -- street price is under $900 for a new license. To get real-time performance that holds up with a handful of nodes, it still takes a hefty system and it's not cheap to set up. Resolve still has its weaknesses too. It's not really a finishing application and its support for metadata is nearly non-existent. Which brings us back to SCRATCH... Something that could make a great companion on the Mac platform for many workflows. SCRATCH's strengths are in data management, metadata and finishing. One could grade in SCRATCH, but Resolve would arguably be the better tool for that in many situations.

Color is great for being all but free. Works well for HD and lower workflows and short-form projects using AVC and ProRes. Hopefully the FCP upgrade rumors are true and we'll also see a much needed upgrade to Color.

These days I do most of my editing in Premiere and FX/compositing is within Nuke and AfterEffects. (Modo, Lightwave and Maya for 3D). All of those apps I just mentioned are available on both Mac and Windows -- which is a huge deal. It's really impossible for us to be platform-dependent these days. Or at least I find it makes little sense to do so. Adobe is really pushing color correcting tips and tricks with Premiere and AE lately and that only tells me that they still don't have a truly professional color grading solution ready to market just yet. Hopefully they have something in the works. That is the biggest gap in the Adobe CS5 end-to-end workflow right now. Resolve is a good companion. SCRATCH could be as well...
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
SCRATCH could work just fine on Mac or other platforms without using the nVidia SDI output. They could support BMD and AJA hardware for monitoring and other functions. I would assume that SCRATCH will continue to evolve and support more hardware options... nVidia is not really keen on continued support of SDI enabled Quadro cards and most buyers are not keen on paying the premiums for them as opposed to using AJA and BMD card solutions. Especially now with the newer 3D cards and lower prices there, increased PCIe bandwidth to handle GPU to capture card transactions for real-time monitor output. SCRATCH on Mac actually makes some good sense if Assimilate moves the software beyond the nVidia restrictions. As for the credibility of this rumor, I don't think it would surprise me either way if it happened or not.

Resolve is a good product at a good price. I disagree that they have done a disservice by pricing it low. Like all other professional software niches that have seen their pricing collapse over the years, color grading and finishing apps are the next on the chopping block. Apple started it with Color. BMD acquired DaVinci and released the Mac version of Resolve for under $1K -- street price is under $900 for a new license. To get real-time performance that holds up with a handful of nodes, it still takes a hefty system and it's not cheap to set up. Resolve still has its weaknesses too. It's not really a finishing application and its support for metadata is nearly non-existent. Which brings us back to SCRATCH... Something that could make a great companion on the Mac platform for many workflows. SCRATCH's strengths are in data management, metadata and finishing. One could grade in SCRATCH, but Resolve would arguably be the better tool for that in many situations.

Color is great for being all but free. Works well for HD and lower workflows and short-form projects using AVC and ProRes. Hopefully the FCP upgrade rumors are true and we'll also see a much needed upgrade to Color.

These days I do most of my editing in Premiere and FX/compositing is within Nuke and AfterEffects. (Modo, Lightwave and Maya for 3D). All of those apps I just mentioned are available on both Mac and Windows -- which is a huge deal. It's really impossible for us to be platform-dependent these days. Or at least I find it makes little sense to do so. Adobe is really pushing color correcting tips and tricks with Premiere and AE lately and that only tells me that they still don't have a truly professional color grading solution ready to market just yet. Hopefully they have something in the works. That is the biggest gap in the Adobe CS5 end-to-end workflow right now. Resolve is a good companion. SCRATCH could be as well...
Click to expand...
All good points Jeff, but I have to ask, if Scratch on a Mac would have happen, what do you think it should sell for? Even at, let's say, $5k, how many licenses do you think Asimilate would sell in this case? And $5k license would destroy their main windows platform business...
 
I really don't know what it should sell for. I would think it could still maintain the same price point for the software license as the Windows version. This could be a good bargain in itself for those with capable Mac hardware running Resolve or SpeedGrade and looking to add Scratch into the mix without another PC workstation or turn-key system to dedicate to it. I don't know what Assimilate's sales figures look like for Scratch now, so hard to guess what could happen with the Mac.
 
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