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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Possible to shoot 3D at IMAX size on RED yet?

Jacob Meaux

Jacob Meaux

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I'm DP'ing a 3D safari hunt out of Africa in June.

Right now we've planned to go featherweight and shoot it on the Integrated Twin-lens 3D Camera Recorder AG-3DA1.

Personally, I'd rather shoot it on a RED.
The problem with that is I need to be lightweight and the AG-3DA1 on a tripod can give me that. I've no experience with 3D on RED.
Can anyone offer up weight/crew estimates for such a shoot?

To add to the challenge, the producer would like to shoot it in an image size possible to be screened in IMAX theaters.
Are we at this stage with RED yet? If so, that might make it worthwhile.

Also, at this time I'm only aware of IMAX film cameras, not digital. Has anyone heard different?

Thanks in advance,
Jacob Meaux
 
Jacob Meaux said:
To add to the challenge, the producer would like to shoot it in an image size possible to be screened in IMAX theaters.
Are we at this stage with RED yet? If so, that might make it worthwhile.
Click to expand...

Your producer is considering using the AG-3DA1 AND wants to screen in IMAX theaters?
 
Two Epic bodies on an Element Technica Atom 3D rig is probably about as small as you can go for shooting 3D with the RED system in beamsplitter configuration, and that weighs in around 60 pounds or so with lenses and necessary AKS. You may be able to go lighter with a side-by-side rig.
With a beamsplitter rig you're going to want a rig technician/stereographer (usually these are separate people) to take care of alignment, I/O and convergence so your camera assistant(s) aren't hideously overworked.
As far as IMAX goes, capturing a 5K image with the Epic is probably the best you can possibly do in the digital world if you want to finish with a film-out to an IMAX-format release print. Or, even better, if all you're interested in finishing to is the current IMAX digital projection (non-large format) standard then, again, Epic 5K can't be beaten w/r/t image quality. In my opinion.
 
michael zaletel said:
Your producer is considering using the AG-3DA1 AND wants to screen in IMAX theaters?
Click to expand...
This could be the result of confusion between the IMAX large-format film system (capture and projection) and the IMAX digital projection which can be found in many "standard" cinemas. IMAX has really muddied up their brand with the latter; I encounter so very many people who confuse the two.
 
Michael, the panasonic suits our 3D needs at the moment.
However, as a bonus, the producer wants to consider screening the film in IMAX.
This is where RED comes in, hopefully.
 
Thank you for the thorough response Keith. I feel I at least have a North on my compass now.
 
This day just keeps getting better and better.
At 15 lbs the phantom 65 plus the zepar looks like it's going to be the perfect fit for our small crew.
Many thanks Kirk.
 
Can't wait to check them out at NAB, and of course find out if the lenses will work with an Epic!

Best of luck with your project
 
Hi,

You are saying to screen at a 3D imax theater right? if so, you need to be considering this when you capture your images, because of the size of the screen Imax cant have too much depth range (and a maximum of 0.2% of positive parallax). And if you are going to screen only a few times in Imax and all the other times at a normal multiplex screen (10m) and later on TVs you will lose a little bit of your "3D" effect, on these smaller screens.
And if you shoot for normal screen and show it at an Imax probably a lot of people wont fuse the images and/or will have some problems with the stereo effect.
So you have to really think if it's worth too shoot for Imax and "loose" some stereo depth for only a few screenings...

And as far as I know imax 3d is dual 2k projectors, so even a 1080p scaled will probably be acceptable...with a little bit of sharpening and stuffs =P

If the scarlet is available before June it will be a good camera for light weight s3d productions..or you can go also with the SI2k-mini.. which is a little bit smaller then the scarlet I believe, but 2k only, with no lenses.

And can you set the interaxial distance on the Panasonic 3DA1? Will you guys be shotting more "tele" or more wide? If more "tele" then you even might have to consider using a side by side rig and the Panasonic camera for near things...

Hope this helps
 
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Yes it is....

late 2009 I was part of a crew for a IMAX release "Air Racers 3D"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1535421/

shapeimage_1.png


We used a BX2 Beamsplitter and RED one cameras. Francis Kenny, ASC was the DP.

We had the footage filmed out and projected at the california science center in downtown, LA. The Red footage looked good. I imagine if it was digital IMAX projection it would of been even better.

having seen that, I'm pretty sure Red EPIC 5k would hold up very well indeed.

best thing I have seen (digital) filmed out at the same theater was a Phantom 65.

In fact I belive there are one or two productions currently filming IMAX 3D projects on Phantom 65's ....


For your africa shoot....lightest you going to get (if you need IMAX release) is Atom Rig and Red Epics. I will be in africa later this year shootin 3D on Epics and start another project in a few weeks in India.

There is a good reason everyone wants to shoot 3D with the epics!

It's you best best.

Any talk of panasonic 3dA1 and the word IMAX shouldn't even been in the same paragraph! ; )


The Zepar system is nice but it's not going to be cheap to rent!! That is if it's even part of the rental fleet right now (I don't think it is)

Just a regular phantom 65 with cinemags etc.......can run you close to $8k a day! So add the zepar system and I think you well into some large numbers!!

Not to mention Data ! the Phantom 65 generats a inordinate amount of raw data!! you have to bring serious systems, generators etc...to be able to deal with that camera.

No to mention it's far from a regular camera like a 3DA1. You can only record up until the 16gb buffer fills up then you have to stop and offload to the attached cinemag (superfast)......and there are many other awkward workflow issues if working with the Phantom 65.


Do alot of research......Going with a Phantom solution is a big decision with lots of ramifications.
 
Epic is almost 13.8 mega pixels bayer and Phantom is 9.9 mega pixels bayer.
Epic is already scheduled for some upcoming imax format projects.
 
Fabricio

"And can you set the interaxial distance on the Panasonic 3DA1? Will you guys be shotting more "tele" or more wide? If more "tele" then you even might have to consider using a side by side rig and the Panasonic camera for near things..."

At the moment, we are considering all options when it comes to IMAX.
I've been told the wildlife we will encounter will be at around 20 yards or so. Changing lenses will not be an option at this length so tests will be scheduled to choose the appropriate prime.

A 3D DVD is unavoidable so that's what I'll be there for.

I won't have a chance to play with the Panasonic until late May so I'll let you know about setting interaxial distance then.
Anyone else think those cameras are massively overpriced?

Nice pic Pedro. Good stuff.
I was quoted 30k for 2 weeks with a phantom 65 + zepar set. Things might have changed since last week however or the rep might have misunderstood me.

Deanan, thanks for the mp specs and RED update. Won't be long before I put a RED feature in the can.

But right now, our main priority is capturing the image. I wish we could handle the Epics but we just don't have a team in place and now it sounds like the phantom is going to be a handful as well. Scarlet twins sounds like a great idea. More wishful thinking. Maybe we'll just bring a pan and shoot from the hip. ;) or maybe not
 
We just had a day on our latest feature where we were all run n gun with the Atom + EPICS. Ran onto the Staten Island Ferry, just powered off bricks, shot for thirty minutes, very well aligned with a tiny Trans Video monitor. Then carry everything off, pile into a van, drive back to Brooklyn, pile into a bus, shoot again on Bricks, inside of a bus, not tethered to any power source or video village, and did this all day. It was perfect. Rockin Optimo zooms, capturing 5k 3D at that speed was amazing.

pm me for pics if you'd like.
 
Doug Horton said:
capturing 5k 3D at that speed was amazing.

pm me for pics if you'd like.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what a pm is but I'd very much like to see the pics. Your shooting style is right up my alley.
 
Probably worth noting that James Cameron released two IMAX films which were largely shot with HD-CAM (prior to the development of SR). These films originated at 1440x1080 3:1:1 8 bit color and were up resed to IMAX for projection. They collectively made about $30M at the box office so people seemed to think that was ok. Based on that, I would say even 4K on a RED ONE could get you to IMAX pretty successfully. I would also say that just shooting something and projecting it on a huge screen does not make it IMAX. IMAX is defined by the massive resolution (surely beyond 5K) huge negative size and unique lensing. Upresing to IMAX is a bit like converting 2D to 3D, or eating fat free pizza. Its sometihing, but not really the same as the real thing.
 
AFAIK there still isn't a motion picture camera around that does have an 8K sensor which is the corresponding resolution that IMAX (traditional) offers. I've only seen a test camera from NHK at NAB a while ago that had an 8K sensor (it was as big as 2 stereo rigs). The Red Epic is as close as you can get to that sort of resolution right now. Up-resing is not only a very delicate art but also very expensive.
 
I would be careful attempting to quantify film resolution as pixels. Every film stock varies in terms of resolution, dynamic range etc. I fully agree that there is a digital resolution that would exceed the resolution of IMAX, but are we 100% certain that 8K is that number? Maybe it's 10K, maybe its 6K? Maybe it's 2k with the right subject matter and post techniques.
 
Jason Goodman said:
Probably worth noting that James Cameron released two IMAX films which were largely shot with HD-CAM (prior to the development of SR). These films originated at 1440x1080 3:1:1 8 bit color and were up resed to IMAX for projection. They collectively made about $30M at the box office so people seemed to think that was ok. Based on that, I would say even 4K on a RED ONE could get you to IMAX pretty successfully. I would also say that just shooting something and projecting it on a huge screen does not make it IMAX. IMAX is defined by the massive resolution (surely beyond 5K) huge negative size and unique lensing. Upresing to IMAX is a bit like converting 2D to 3D, or eating fat free pizza. Its sometihing, but not really the same as the real thing.
Click to expand...

I'm more interested in the quality and my producer is more interested in the bottom line so it evens out to semi-fat free pizza. :smile5:
We're still looking at all options as of now. The Panasonic is going to be a last resort kind of thing.
 
Jason Goodman said:
I would be careful attempting to quantify film resolution as pixels. Every film stock varies in terms of resolution, dynamic range etc. I fully agree that there is a digital resolution that would exceed the resolution of IMAX, but are we 100% certain that 8K is that number? Maybe it's 10K, maybe its 6K? Maybe it's 2k with the right subject matter and post techniques.
Click to expand...

To rephrase the question... what's resolution of digital capture would feel the same as the 15/70mm experience.
 
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