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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Quickie: SSD vs. CF

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I had a couple of questions. The first ones are directly related to this thread:

- Is it still assumed that there will be an option for SSD or CF?
- These are both individual side modules that would somehow connect to the brain, right? Screwed onto it at the factory or are they user changeable? For example, if I got a CF module and decided to later upgrade to a SSD, could I do it myself?
- How will we transfer data from the CF or SSD to a computer? USB? Firewire? E-SATA? Connected to the brain? Or do we have to put the media in a proprietary RED docking station (I know there's a name for this, but I can't remember it right now)?

My other question is, what do we expect Scarlet Fixed to ship with as a package? Brain, CF or SSD, side handle with a battery, and 5-inch LCD? I'd like to get a REDmote, too, but I assume that won't be in the primary package.
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
There are probably 28 threads about this, but I haven't been able to find any of them on a quick look. So feel free to point me to one!

1. In so far as anyone knows, is it expected that Scarlet will come with a choice of SSD or CF recording? Which will be the default?

2. What are the relative merits of SSD vs. CF in the context of shooting with Scarlet?

3. A glance at the RED store showed the maximum capacity CF card available was 16GB. I know they certify rigorously, but why no larger cards?

I'm inclined towards CF at this stage, because, first, I have a whole boatload of large, reasonably fast CF cards I shoot stills on, and second, if I'm stuck in the back of beyond somewhere and something breaks, I can scare up CF cards a lot more easily than SSD cards. May not be up to RED specs but hopefully can get something, even if only at lower res and higher compression.
Click to expand...

For digital cinema, CF is done. Stick a fork in it.

I know, I know, I have a lot of money in CF cards too. (And a lot of money in P2 cards, but that's an even sadder story.) Get over it. SSDs have the capacity and the speed that digital cinema needs.
 
I think RED CF 16GB cards are going to get cheap, used of course, but I am planning on going CF.
 
Trevor Harris said:
Are CF cards not able to handle 120fps???
Click to expand...

If you look at those capacity charts, I don't really think it's practical to use CF cards at 120fps. For the highest compression rate (which will produce a relatively poor quality image), a 128gb SSD will last 165 minutes at 24fps. This means a 16GB CF card will last about 20 minutes at 24fps, or less than 4 minutes at 120fps. At 5:1 compression, which EPIC users seem to like, you're talking about less than two minutes of footage!

I think for anything but the most tightly scripted productions, SSD is going to be a necessity, not an option, for these cameras. Remember, most people have still camera SSDs, which don't have the high-speed capacity needed for Scarlet anyway ...

D
 
I'm going for 2 x 128GB SSD so I can keep dumping footage down to drives and swapping the SSD's over. I agree that CF just won't be big enough - you'd have to data manage way too much.
 
I've been using the 16gb CF cards on the RED one for over a year, no problems whatsoever with the amount of dumping of footage. It's what happens on set.

I do really like this side SSD w/a CF adapter inside of it as a way to cover yourself for the future or if you ever end up renting SSD's....probably what I'll do.
 
David Baumber said:
I'm going for 2 x 128GB SSD so I can keep dumping footage down to drives and swapping the SSD's over. I agree that CF just won't be big enough - you'd have to data manage way too much.
Click to expand...

How do you transfer footage down to drives? Can you do it directly from the camera (USB connnection?) or do you need a separate SSD "dock" that is connected to a computer?
 
Steven Hammer said:
How do you transfer footage down to drives? Can you do it directly from the camera (USB connnection?) or do you need a separate SSD "dock" that is connected to a computer?
Click to expand...

You need the Red Station Red Mag A USB connection would leave you an old man before your project was finished. (And there isn't one on the camera.)
 
I would also say that SSD would be more future proof, considering the development of the new sensors, being capable to deliver more data, right?
 
Steven Hammer said:
How do you transfer footage down to drives? Can you do it directly from the camera (USB connnection?) or do you need a separate SSD "dock" that is connected to a computer?
Click to expand...

You need the SSD module. Connects via FireWire, USB or eSATA to your box. I also bought the base station but I found out that I don't really need it.
 
There's a reason why RED CF cards are going to be the cheap option.

I don't know for sure that the CF card will handle this, but hypothetically... At 3K, 2:1 aspect ratio, 120fps, 12:1 compression, you will get a whole 4.125 minutes on a 16GB CF card.

I think 3K, 2:1 aspect ratio, 24fps, 8:1 compression will be about the most popular format for Scarlet shooters. Even doing that, you will be getting 13.75 minutes on the 16GB CF card.

Maybe SSD will be a harder bullet to bite than the CF option upon first delivery. But wouldn't you rather bite the bullet rather than be shot with another one later during the wrangling process?
 
Joseph Hutson said:
There's a reason why RED CF cards are going to be the cheap option.

I don't know for sure that the CF card will handle this, but hypothetically... At 3K, 2:1 aspect ratio, 120fps, 12:1 compression, you will get a whole 4.125 minutes on a 16GB CF card.

I think 3K, 2:1 aspect ratio, 24fps, 8:1 compression will be about the most popular format for Scarlet shooters. Even doing that, you will be getting 13.75 minutes on the 16GB CF card.

Maybe SSD will be a harder bullet to bite than the CF option upon first delivery. But wouldn't you rather bite the bullet rather than be shot with another one later during the wrangling process?
Click to expand...

Joseph, I am not necessarily advocating for CF cards but I am not sure your analysis really holds up. If you are not talking about any differences in write speed (i.e. what data rates the different media can handle) then the relative costs for storage are roughly equal at current price levels. Using your examples, it is true you might be limited to just a few minutes of 120 fps recording on a 16G card but how often does one shoot at high speed for extended periods? And if you normally shoot at 24 fps, some folks would even advocate spreading your 50+ minutes of footage over several media instead of risking it all on one - so perhaps four 16G CF cards have an advantage over one 64G SSD in that scenario.

At present, you pay about $1000 for 64G of storage on CF or SSD; roughly equal. And, with the $1000 difference in the module price, you could acquire an additional 64G of CF storage. If the cost of CF cards happens to drop, you actual might see a price advantage in CF. As I said, this is not an argument for CF cards over SSD, nor does it take into account any potential superiority in write speed for SSDs. All I am doing here is pointing out that CF might be a perfectly reasonable solution for the Scarlet where it is not for the Epic. :thumbup1:
 
Yeah, I never read your posts. I just checked out the topic subject post and spoke directly to it.

Make your decisions when stuff is in the store. It's too early to decide now...
 
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