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Question for Owner/Operators

A

Art Chong

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Hi all,

A few questions for owner/operator/DIT's out there, if you please.

With the upcoming release of the Epic, I am considering investing in a fairly comprehensive Epic package (maybe around $50-$60k package) and renting it and myself out as DIT/Operator. For now, I don't plan on renting out just the camera without me present. I consider myself a very technically-minded person, very computer literate and have some experience shooting as an owner/operator on smaller projects, albeit mostly with a cine-kitted 5D/7D. I recently met someone who's basically doing what I'm describing with a Red One, and I'm curious how viable this model is outside of my sample size of one.

So the questions are: How did you get started? How much rigging/equipment do you provide outside of the the bare camera/media? If you don't mind, what are your rental/hire rates? (ball park, you don't have to be specific) Basically, what's your business model like?

Thanks ahead of time!

-Art
 
It realy depends on the market you're in...

Generally, though - I would warn you that to compete with full-time rental houses, you must be prepared to deliver "anything" and replace "anything" whenever the production finds that neccesary.
This is not easilly accomplished by smaller units. And is a hard businessmodel even for larger units.

So first: define your market

Second warning: Like with Red Ones, there's going to be a ton of Epics out there. And I cannot see a scanrio where you will not have to compete with even more Epic-S (I really miss the Scarlet S-35 name...) in addition to all the X and M packages out. What will make people use you will primarily be knowledge and knowledge and knowledge.

Do I mean you shouldn't do it?
Not at all!

But be realistic, find your market and get very good.

Sort of...

Cheers and good luck!

Gunleik
 
Thanks Gunleik,

Yeah, there's a fair amount of legwork I still have to do to figure out if the model will work in my area. There're a few reasonably big ad agencies and blue chip companies in the area but not that many production or rental houses that I know of... so depending on how you interpret the situation, that could be a good thing and a bad thing. I guess I was just poking around to see if there are other people out there using the same model as the person I met the other day, as it seemed to fit my personal situation best.
 
Gunleik always gives great advice and is spot on.

Following on his thoughts, it's always best if you have your own use for the camera and rental to be secondary.

In other words, if you are relying 100% on rental along with your mandatory DIT services, you could end up struggling.

There will be a lot of competition, plus as new flavors enter the market, business will fluxuate.

If you are using the Epic for your own work and renting it on the off days, buying an Epic kit is a great idea.

If not you need to be double sure you have your business model right.

Since you need to be paid, as well as pay for your Epic, this puts even more pressure on you.

Let's say you pay $60k for an Epic. Then you rent it once a week for $1000/day including your time. That's $50k so you still haven't paid for your gear much less your time.

How much do you need to make for each rental, and how many rentals per year do you need to be viable?

Jim
 
Art, we're in Raleigh. We do a full package similar to what you're thinking of doing including everything RED/Camera related: Camera, batts, drives, all accessories, ET Mantis for handheld, tripod, the full RED Pro Prime set, Arri Mattebox, Arri Follow Focus and and 1/2 ton grip van with assorted other equipment. This combined with our DIT station and a DIT/Cam assist (1 person) on set all day. We do $1500/day and depending on the client, that's a lot or the best price around.

Like others have said, it's all about the market you're in and the clients you're dealing with whether or not you can make your business model work. It works for us only because we use the camera for our own production projects 95% of the time. In a smaller market like Raleigh or Richmond, I'd be very careful if you think you can rent this out all the time at our rate. Good luck. Kevin
 
Thanks for the advice and well wishes, guys. It's very helpful to hear from people who's got some real-world experience.

Actually, I think it may be worth another post to clarify my intentions a bit. The object isn't to actually turn myself into big rental house, but rather a way to justify purchasing a $60,000 camera package for use in my own personal projects. It's not going to be my main source of income and I have no problem with making back $60k in a year/year and a half, but if it's going to take longer than two years, that's a problem in my book. The goal is to eventually have the package pay for it self then help fund films that I actually want to shoot and make my "living" some where else (probably with what I do now).

Thanks again, sirs.
 
Are you paying for the gear with your own money or a loan? That also has to be factored into the ROI equation.

The advice given so far is very good. A combination of renting the camera and/or you with it, as well as using it for your own projects(where you are paid by a client to produce something) can be a good model, especially if you already have a client base. For most productions renting your gear, you probably won't have everything they need, so you'll want a relationship with a rental company to help supplement your package. It's also good to have this relationship because they can turn to you if they have a shortage of cameras. Make sure you have lots of revenue streams. That's one way to survive this economic stranglehold these days.
 
Art,

As a DP and also owner of a small rental house in Richmond, I have to let you know that there aren't many shoots around here where they actually hire a DIT or an Operator. It's usually a DP (who also operates), 1st AC, and 2nd AC (who also deals with media).

Now if you're talking about going out as an AC, that's a diifferent story, but you won't get hired for that position strictly because you own a camera package. There are already a number of 1st and 2nd ACs in the area, and they have quite a stronghold on the market. The A-list 1st AC in town has 15 years of experience pulling focus, and that's not a skill you're just born with.

There is also a good thread in the off-topic forum regarding starting up a rental package. It's pretty eye-opening, and you might want to double or triple your budget to get started.

Now if you're willing to rent the camera out without you, I could certainly put you on the list as a subrental source....

Max
 
Thanks Max,

Yeah, from what it's looking like, I think I may have to consider the possibility of letting the camera out the door without me being present. I'll let you know, especially since you're local. I also plan on servicing the surrounding DC/Charlottesville/Norfolk area since they're within a 2 hour radius, which I have no problem driving if I had to.

By the way, I think we have a common friend/acquaintance in Paul Bacon. I think he knows you from racing or something. He's mentioned your name to me before. Small world.
 
Art, have you considered a Scarlet instead of an Epic? You could probably get your kit down to $20k instead of $60.

Or an Epic S using still lenses, probably have a nice kit for $30k.

Could be a better solution if you don't need every feature.
 
jimhare said:
Art, have you considered a Scarlet instead of an Epic? You could probably get your kit down to $20k instead of $60.

Or an Epic S using still lenses, probably have a nice kit for $30k.

Could be a better solution if you don't need every feature.
Click to expand...

I've kicked around the idea. The difference (in my mind) is that I think a scarlet is going to be a lot harder to rent out than an Epic, long term. Without a lot of facts behind the statement, the gist of it is that I believe an Epic-X has a much better chance of becoming a (small) proifit center as opposed to a loss center that narrative filmmaking tend to be for me. If I choose to rent it out, I feel like I'd have a lot easier time trying to rent out an X than an S, espcially if HDRx takes off like I think it's going to. As I understand it, the price difference between an X and an S is about $15000? It's not a small amount, but not unreasonable if it gets me more rentals more often is the way I see it.

That and Epic X is the only model that has a reasonably clear picture of when it's going to come out. Everything else is kind of up in the air and "subject to change" as they say.
 
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